Mythic "postpones" Imperator

[Cynax]

The press release.

I caught Imperator at E3 and it looked pretty cool. I suspect that part of the motivation might be the challenge in creating interest in a fresh IP over something more established like Warhammer.

Or maybe Jacobs just honestly thinks it's crap. A bummer, I think. Cowboys & Space Indians sounded like a blast.

[Iannis]

I thought it was Romans vs. Barbarians. Except, without the "versus" part...

I really hope it BECOMES Warhammer 40k. "Ork horde fighting some Beastman over on other side of zone...there's a Genesplicer gank squad somewhere who'll probably gank whoever wins...shit, i just saw a bunch of eldar in bright pink armor OMGINC!!!" most factionalized game ever.

[Grez]

WH40K or Starcraft MMOPRG would be fucking awesome.

[Deathwing]

Is Imperator what those roman units keep calling me in Total War?

I think you should stick with romans, they were fucking cool. The used burning pigs to fight elephants! Albeit, not as cool as the Chinese catapulting flaming monkeys at the British during the Opium Wars.

[Itzena]

Originally Posted by Iannis

I thought it was Romans vs. Barbarians. Except, without the "versus" part...

I really hope it BECOMES Warhammer 40k. "Ork horde fighting some Beastman over on other side of zone...there's a Genesplicer gank squad somewhere who'll probably gank whoever wins...shit, i just saw a bunch of eldar in bright pink armor OMGINC!!!" most factionalized game ever.

Unlikely, as the Warhammer licence is question is Warhammer Fantasy and not WH40K.

[Iannis]

can't playground rules be in effect, so they can make tradsies? too blasted many fantasy MMOs. It gets blah.

[Itzena]

Why'd Mythic want to do that?

Number's one through five of MMOG subs are fantasy based - why should Mythic avoid the genre where the money obviously is?

[Vorph]

Maybe because you reach a saturation point in a certain genre and the only reason there isn't a sci-fi mmog in the top 5 is that no one has ever made a truly great one. As far as fantasy goes, I can barely even stay interested in Vanguard, let alone something from Mythic. Of course, I highly doubt Mythic could make a truly great game in any genre, so it's really a moot point.

[Jedite]

Originally Posted by Vorph

Maybe because you reach a saturation point in a certain genre and the only reason there isn't a sci-fi mmog in the top 5 is that no one has ever made a truly great one. As far as fantasy goes, I can barely even stay interested in Vanguard, let alone something from Mythic. Of course, I highly doubt Mythic could make a truly great game in any genre, so it's really a moot point.

Actually Anarchy Online has grown to be a great Sci-fi MMO. It was a disaster on release and the months after release but it has come full circle. Not to mention that AO has one of the best skills systems I have seen implemented in a MMO. Sure its not on the top 5, I think it could have been had they released a stable game.

Damn dont be so harsh on Mythic, DAOC was a good game. The RvR system is IMO alot better than the BG system that Blizzard implemented. It actually had a point to existing as opposed to BGs were there is really no point in going through them. I will say though that the PVP was very unbalanced in DAOC, thanks to the freaking stunning healers!!! DAMNZ JOO DIRFS!!

[Vorph]

Originally Posted by Jedite

Actually Anarchy Online has grown to be a great Sci-fi MMO. It was a disaster on release and the months after release but it has come full circle. Not to mention that AO has one of the best skills systems I have seen implemented in a MMO. Sure its not on the top 5, I think it could have been had they released a stable game.

I played AO in beta, didn't buy it, played it again in '03, and then just recently tried the free version for a couple nights. It's a good game, but far from truly great unfortunately. Shadowlands was a huge step backwards too imo. The last thing AO needed was a Luclin-esque (and by that I mean "an incredibly stupid idea you wish never existed") expansion that was like EQ with guns. I also think they made a mistake in turning a nicely complex game system into a pissing contest of "let's see who can make the lowest level twink with the highest level buffs to equip the best possible implants/gear." I normally couldn't care less about twinking in a mmog, but in AO it was just so ridiculous.

I also think for a sci-fi mmo to succeed, someone will need to reinvent the combat system. AO's handling of ranged weapons is awful. They're like melee weapons with a really long reach, and seeing people/NPCs go toe to toe with guns is just silly. Attempts at pseudo-FPS combat haven't fared too well either (see: Neocron). I've been meaning to load up the Face of Mankind beta for the hell of it just to see how their system works, but I'm not expecting much from that game.

Damn dont be so harsh on Mythic, DAOC was a good game. The RvR system is IMO alot better than the BG system that Blizzard implemented. It actually had a point to existing as opposed to BGs were there is really no point in going through them. I will say though that the PVP was very unbalanced in DAOC, thanks to the freaking stunning healers!!! DAMNZ JOO DIRFS!!

DAOC was a good game in beta, yes. Mythic proved utterly incompetent in managing their game however and wound up making half-assed changes based on whoever whined loudest on the vn tard forums. Top it off with their system of class leads who were mostly a bunch of L20 forum jockey "experts" and you get a game that went right into the shitter within 2 months of release. The cynic in me has lost all faith in that company--and Imperator in particular since I can't comprehend how anyone could've read that game's design doc and not said, "this is fucking stupid!"

[Duhulk]

It seemed fairly similar to Tabula Rasa. An MMORPG that tries to feel like a 3rd person sci-fi shooter.

[Coryl]

Originally Posted by Itzena

Why'd Mythic want to do that?

Number's one through five of MMOG subs are fantasy based - why should Mythic avoid the genre where the money obviously is?

Indeed. The market research data that I've seen in the past indicated that where RPGs are concerned (and I'd think this was true for MMORPGs as well) that fantasy just dominates the interest of the potential customer. The average RPG fan would much rather play swords-n-sorcery than laser guns and spaceships. So, in a vacuum of no other factors, you're better off making Warhammer Fantasy MMORPG even it's popularity significantly falls behind WoW's and even a couple other fantasy MMOs, instead of an Imperator that falls sharply behind a single other sf competitor.

The numbers I've seen indicated that if you didnt have the Star Wars IP to boost you (and I won't bring up how Star Wars is a lot like fantasy anyway), you're better off being the tenth-most-popular fantasy RPG than the second-most-popular sf rpg.

I can't give a full analysis of why that's true today, but if I were to hazard some guesses, the list of big factors would go something like this: (1) The popularity of Dungeons & Dragons, historically. (2) Fantasy IPs basically share an understandable set of concepts and shared expectations. Papa Tolkein gave us our elves, dwarves, and wizards, and we've been running with that ever since. Sf settings, on the other hand, have a lot of explaining to do, and they don't really share anything between one another. So it's harder to approach them and transfer your interest. (3) RPG structure. The structure of tank/dps/healer/etc. is something that we've never managed to break out of in RPGs and MMOs. And that structure just works better in fantasy games than in sf ones.

[Dyscord]

I will admit, I think the auto assault combat system sounds intriguing. I won't comment whether or not I think auto assault will be a good game or will have any sort of long lasting appeal, but it sounds like a step in the right direction for a Sci-Fi MMO to take.

Basically you drive your car around fast paced. You use the mouse to aim and click to fire. After that, its all up to the combat system/RNG to determine if you hit or not, where you hit, and how much damage you do. The trick is to keep your enemy in your firing arcs while keeping out of his.

This seems like the perfect balance between something like Planetside or SWG. You get a system where you can have your 'special' attacks, thats easier to balance, but doesn't feel like I stand here and auto attack you while you stand there and auto attack me. Make it so it feels like you're actually DOING something in a gunfight. Gunfights aren't about standing in the middle of a field shooting at another guy standing on the other end of the field.

The game should randomize hits based on skill, how fast you were moving and how fast your target was moving, whether your target was in cover, and how fast you're shooting. That can add some serious depth where attacking someone from behind cover grants defensive bonuses, and taking slower, better 'aimed' shots at long range and quickly rattling off shots as the target gets closer. And should you need to 'reload' its best to run off and hide somewhere.

You CAN develop an AI for NPC's. I don't understand why the days of 'hit mob it chases after me' are still around. You CAN make an interesting world filled with objects and cover to take advantage of instead of 'trees. less trees. no trees'. You CAN make a Sci-fi game where it doesn't feel like I'm trading shots across a civil war battlefield but without the grand army.

Make a Sci-Fi game EXCITING and you'll have people EXCITED to play it.

[leane]

Originally Posted by Dyscord

I will admit, I think the auto assault combat system sounds intriguing. I won't comment whether or not I think auto assault will be a good game or will have any sort of long lasting appeal, but it sounds like a step in the right direction for a Sci-Fi MMO to take.

Basically you drive your car around fast paced. You use the mouse to aim and click to fire. After that, its all up to the combat system/RNG to determine if you hit or not, where you hit, and how much damage you do. The trick is to keep your enemy in your firing arcs while keeping out of his.

This seems like the perfect balance between something like Planetside or SWG. You get a system where you can have your 'special' attacks, thats easier to balance, but doesn't feel like I stand here and auto attack you while you stand there and auto attack me. Make it so it feels like you're actually DOING something in a gunfight. Gunfights aren't about standing in the middle of a field shooting at another guy standing on the other end of the field.

The game should randomize hits based on skill, how fast you were moving and how fast your target was moving, whether your target was in cover, and how fast you're shooting. That can add some serious depth where attacking someone from behind cover grants defensive bonuses, and taking slower, better 'aimed' shots at long range and quickly rattling off shots as the target gets closer. And should you need to 'reload' its best to run off and hide somewhere.

You CAN develop an AI for NPC's. I don't understand why the days of 'hit mob it chases after me' are still around. You CAN make an interesting world filled with objects and cover to take advantage of instead of 'trees. less trees. no trees'. You CAN make a Sci-fi game where it doesn't feel like I'm trading shots across a civil war battlefield but without the grand army.

Make a Sci-Fi game EXCITING and you'll have people EXCITED to play it.

Problem is that takes a fair bit of computing power, no problem in something like UT2004 where you have maybe a half dozen bots, but every additional bot takes CPU cycles to decide where its going, what its gonna do, etc. PLus AI is nasty to implement, lot easier for programmers to slap together an aggro system and use it. You can make it but would take months of additional development.... and given how fast they push the game out the door to make money it would be a very hard sell to the upper management to take the time to do it right. Willing to bet if the programmers had the option they would take it though. Lotta programmers love what they do and don't like half-assed stuff, they just don't have any choice...

[Vorph]

Once physics processing units become standard, there's really not going to be much left for the cpu to do besides AI and program flow control. All that's really needed is for one game company to make a truly advanced AI system and then it will be expected of everyone else.