What the fuck is wrong with the raiding guilds out there

[frott]

Yeah, or at least play some non-"gayfaggot democratic competitive games that use 'Random Number Generators' to eventually declare a winner".

Chess = competitive
WoW = WOPR playing tic tac toe against himself

[Hozz]

I was a EQ end gamer until GoD, when I quit. I was only ever in one high level guild and we were never the 'best' or furthest along guild on the server, sometimes lagging as much as an expansion behind. But we were definitely a raiding guild, raced for spawns, etc.

I would never go back to a game where the end game was non instanced. I am married now, with a daughter and just dont have the near 24/7 online capability that I once had.

And I think instancing is so popular is because there are a lot of people just like me. I know I am in a guild full of them in WoW. We are the furthest along Horde guild (spawned Rag) on the server but we have never killed Kazzak and havent killed Azuregos since 1.0 because the top Alliance guild is filled with players who can have 30 people on in under 30 mins anytime of the day. If we had to compete with that for end game I would have quit a long time ago because I would be stuck doing nothing.

H

[FuckYou]

casual game, casual raid system. thats really all there is to it.

[Vaclav]

Originally Posted by Hozz

I was a EQ end gamer until GoD, when I quit. I was only ever in one high level guild and we were never the 'best' or furthest along guild on the server, sometimes lagging as much as an expansion behind. But we were definitely a raiding guild, raced for spawns, etc.

I would never go back to a game where the end game was non instanced. I am married now, with a daughter and just dont have the near 24/7 online capability that I once had.

And I think instancing is so popular is because there are a lot of people just like me. I know I am in a guild full of them in WoW. We are the furthest along Horde guild (spawned Rag) on the server but we have never killed Kazzak and havent killed Azuregos since 1.0 because the top Alliance guild is filled with players who can have 30 people on in under 30 mins anytime of the day. If we had to compete with that for end game I would have quit a long time ago because I would be stuck doing nothing.

H

Right, because if they did something smarter that took more than the minimal manpower they want to put on developing raid content and actually... did something mind-boggling like...

Thinking.... thinking.... could it be.... hmm.... thinking...

Holy shit I have it - actually make a reasonable amount of raid content.... it wouldn't need to be instanced...

Hell, you could even abuse some of this nifty stuff called "Factions" and make it so that certain targets are unpalatable for some people going one direction or another. (Or possibly even impossible to engage - WTF is it that the leaders of each faction drop absolute crap again?)

If you plan out your content appropriately there is absolutely no reason at all you can't have uninstanced content while limiting the amount that people compete over it.

[benbadman]

Originally Posted by Angrier

If that's true, you fucking shit.

The Sixth Sense has been out for years, so if you haven't seen it yet then you're just a bit behind the culture curve.


Anyways, I think I somewhat agree with the original poster's thoughts about rampant spoilers ruining the raid atmosphere. I know in my guild, everyone is piping in on vent with some tip or different strategy they read on some message board. The end result is every attempt we keep changing 3-4 things about our strategy and we just dont have the skilled players to execute that many changes to the raiding playbook on the fly.

[Suineg]

Originally Posted by Hozz

I was a EQ end gamer until GoD, when I quit. I was only ever in one high level guild and we were never the 'best' or furthest along guild on the server, sometimes lagging as much as an expansion behind. But we were definitely a raiding guild, raced for spawns, etc.

I would never go back to a game where the end game was non instanced. I am married now, with a daughter and just dont have the near 24/7 online capability that I once had.

And I think instancing is so popular is because there are a lot of people just like me. I know I am in a guild full of them in WoW. We are the furthest along Horde guild (spawned Rag) on the server but we have never killed Kazzak and havent killed Azuregos since 1.0 because the top Alliance guild is filled with players who can have 30 people on in under 30 mins anytime of the day. If we had to compete with that for end game I would have quit a long time ago because I would be stuck doing nothing.

H

I find it really ironic that GoD + expansions the progression is all instanced and is a good thing.

[Mkopec1]

I always said that instances were not a bad thing, only if done right, and mixed with non-instanced content.

I think AO had the right balance, you had world dungeons and content which were not instanced, and alot of instanced stuff you could do in a group or solo.

Later they had shit like spawning your own bosses anfter collecting ingredients to make the thing that spawns them. And aliens which attacked your city at your chosen time, give or take a hour, and then board alien ships to try and destroy the bosses, etc.

Im not saying that AO was the god of mmorpgs bcause in some aspects it sucked, but their cotent was always fresh and the world alwasy seemed alive, like a true on line world, like EQ was.

[RunningDog]

There are so many level 60s that they have to create content accessible to most. I would have thought that creating 5-10 man instances would be easier and would keep most of their players happy, then they could have set up harder raid instances. I guess they just don't have the manpower to do that so we just get raids for all, at least until the first expansion comes out.

[Gar]

Originally Posted by Kaxmax

If I want to compete, I'll go play some basketball. I play games to relax.

Ah, I see. So you can not play basketball to relax? You can't play games to compete? Shut the fuck up, its all about how do you want to play the game in question. You can play basketball to relax or you can play it to comete.

Many of those who call themselfs gamers play computer games to compete, not to relax.

It's the players style, not the game that defines competition or casual relaxing game.

[Vaclav]

Originally Posted by Gar

Ah, I see. So you can not play basketball to relax? You can't play games to compete? Shut the fuck up, its all about how do you want to play the game in question. You can play basketball to relax or you can play it to comete.

Many of those who call themselfs gamers play computer games to compete, not to relax.

It's the players style, not the game that defines competition or casual relaxing game.

Not to mention anything with multiple players is inherently competitive, making his entire point moot.

If you want something relaxing, play something like Final Fantasy or some other single-player bullshit, that's what they're for.

[Malvesti]

There's plenty of competitive sports and hobbies in which participants compete against a standard rather than interfere with each other.

It's like the difference between 5v5 basketball or the 4x400m relay. Both team events, both competitive.

I like basketball-type competition too, but in MMORPGs that comes down to sacrificing family/sleep/work in order to get contested spawns. I much prefer impossibly-hard instances to racing for spawns. You can still get your dose of competition by striving to be the first/most efficient/etc. at any given task.

[Magnum PI]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

Time = Dedication. Back in the day of EQ you knew a lvl60 was a good player and accomplished something(think of all those hell lvls).

The fact is that anyone can do SM/rag/onyxia so it makes anyone who kills them trivial. Anyone can do it so wtf does it matter when you kill it?

You're a dinosaur. A dying breed who lives to spend 8 to 12 hours a day in front of a computer to defeat pixel so-and-so. You're institutionalized by prior EQ abuse. The fact is, if in 1999/2000 there were three or four major MMO's around there would never have been the forever camps etc. Competition would have forced developers to put out quality content to stay ahead of the pack, and that would have meant immersion, lore, actually working quests, which would have kept people playing with each other in a great density in exploring the world.

What you want is just a series of hard ass fights, fuck everything else, fuck quests, fuck lore, fuck community, just give me raid bosses from start to eternity. Well fuck, just play XBox 360 or PS3 when it comes out, get you and about 10 buddies to play non-stop Killzone or some other shooter and you will have your 10 man raid and you guys make strats and tactics and own the zone.

[FuckYou]

You're a dinosaur. A dying breed who lives to spend 8 to 12 hours a day in front of a computer to defeat pixel so-and-so.

more gay generalizations. you forgot to call him fat, pimple faced and a nerd.

[Magnum PI]

Originally Posted by FuckYou

more gay generalizations. you forgot to call him fat, pimple faced and a nerd.

Perception is reality, get used to it. And I blame the MMO's. All that followed EQ have taken the easy route and just threw in time sink for the difficult stuff or child like easy for the rest of the content and boycotted the community experience that made pre Velious EQ1 so amazing. Devs are lazy, they have addicts and they know it, so they shovel shit out and the ask few questions masses devour it like mana from heaven.

[Kaxmax]

Originally Posted by Vaclav

Not to mention anything with multiple players is inherently competitive, making his entire point moot.

If you want something relaxing, play something like Final Fantasy or some other single-player bullshit, that's what they're for.

Are you going to try to tell me with a straight face that the majority of people who play WoW/EQ/whatever are playing because they want competition? If so, I would say you are VASTLY out of touch with the general populace of these games.