WoW PVP : If I wanted to play CTF I'd pop Halo2 into the ole Xbox

[Qhue]

Now I'm not a hardcore PVPer, I'll admit that.

I'm the guy who walked into UO and after a couple weeks in Beta was disgusted when I was getting ganked right and left while trying to immerse myself in the whole Ultima ideal. I was good friends with a major PVP person in EQ and while I appreciated that he found a great deal of enjoyment in his mangina PVP cleric, it just wasn't for me.

When WoW was announced and they first started talking about the two sides of battle I was glad to hear that there would be PVE servers where the PVP aspect was wholly consensual. Nothing would irk me more than having a bad day at work and coming home to some dorks chain killing me when I'm trying to unwind.

My ears perked up, however, when they started outlining the plans for the Battlegrounds. Instanced maps that were to be like playing a game of Warcraft 3, but from the perspective of the individual units. There would be resource gathering, heroes (us), minions to command, and a grand battle the likes of which had never been seen in PVP combat.

I tried out Alterac Valley on the Test server and found myself really enjoying the experience, especially when everything was being orchestrated by some strategic leader type who had a talent for organizing 39 other people into a cohesive fighting force on multiple fronts. Sure it wasnt the same game as the PVE game and it required a bit of suspension of disbelief, but it had an epic and grand scale to it that I found refreshing. Imagine that, getting entertained by a game instead of just frustrated or showing up and farming crap for the 16th clearing of MC.


Pity that game doesn't exist now.


Alterac Valley hasn't initialized on my server in days. When it does initialize the Horde are unpowered and easily outgunned because they just want to farm faction for l33t rewards and not bother actually trying to win the battle. This in turn makes any Horde players who want to actually PLAY Alterac Valley disgusted and they never come back....hence the instance not ever initializing.

Until there is a mechanism in place to reserve a spot or to host a specific instance of AV its going to continue to languish and all the effort in creating this whole Battlegrounds concept is going to be utterly wasted. Blizzard has been completely silent on this issue despite a ton of people commenting and complaining that this long ballyhoo'd major content expansion of the game is complete and utter trash owing to everyone's inability to actually play it.

All they have said and likely will say on the subject is for people to go and play Warsong Gulch which requires many fewer people on each side to play and which is short enough to allow for a great deal more casual gamers who don't want to undertake the full Alterac Valley experience.

Well that's just fuckin super that is. If I wanted to play CAPTURE THE BLOODY FLAG I'd just play Halo2, Hell even Star Wars Battlefront has more of a Warcrafty feel to it than Warsong Gulch. What the heck is the in-game plot behind WSG anyway? The Night Elves and Orcs decide to establish environmental policy based on who can run a flag back and forth? This isnt just suspension of disbelief, its a wholesale sellout of the MMORPG concept and is only a small step above mother fucking /gems in terms of a timesink for a bored playerbase who is sitting around waiting for content.

Oddly enough while waiting for Alterac Valley to ever open on Icecrown I've started playing Guild Wars,and I can't see why anyone who really likes PVP would continue with WoW at this point.

[Sabyn]

Wow, a post about population imbalance. And some shit about roleplaying. I believe this shit has been covered ad nauseum.

[Moontayle]

You read well. He's more complaining about how the much touted Battlegrounds content addition has pretty much languished and that the only viable option between the two available is a CTF event that makes little to no sense in terms of the actual game it exists in. CTF works fone for Halo 2 and the like but in an MMO, when you have actual warring factions, the idea of both sides having a 'friendly' competition is ludicrous.

[Jait]

I agree about guild wars, imho best pvp game out there atm.

I think your point was much better made in the title of this thread and in the final paragraphs. When I want instant gratification, I play console or Guild Wars (Random Arena). When I want long-term real strategy I play Guild Wars (HoH/GvG). Sometimes RTS's like C&C, AoW, maybe even a FPS or two like Battlefield. These games each focus on one thing, and one thing only, being the best at what they do. WoW has done tons of genre-busting, too much, and too quickly, and are trying too hard to be the best of each. And honestly, that's a fantastic goal, I have no doubts one day it will be great but for now they're minigames. And maybe that's how Blizzard should've treated them rather than try to overpolish them.

What's the answer though? Short of holding a Korean town at gunpoint forcing them to play Horde Taking a small page from Guild Wars, ultimately they might've considered allowing an option at creation to make a "Battlegrounds Only" character at level 60 with a selection of various spec'd gear. These characters would have no access to the outside world, but regular PvP and PvE characters could join (and still have a better advantage with gear+PT). Throw the rankings out the window, make a game fun before moving on to more competitive aspects. You can always remove the "Battlegrounds only" chars at a later point, but at least give some recourse. I really don't see much of an answer for filling in Horde characters otherwise.

[Jait]

..........

[Fizbenx]

Random pug av groups suck ass just like random pug groups for any instance suck ass. Playing av w/ 20+ guildmates is totally differnent than playing av with a bunch of random nutsacks who are joining for their own reasons. AV is designed for fully organized raids, which you arent going to see outside of guild events. That's not the fault of blizzard, its the fault of the players who really don't give a fuck. Try starting up an organized cohesive raid, its a blast when that happens.

[TheCutlery]

AV is designed for fully organized raids, which you arent going to see outside of guild events. That's not the fault of blizzard, its the fault of the players who really don't give a fuck. Try starting up an organized cohesive raid, its a blast when that happens.

My ass it's not the fault of blizzard.

Even if you do have an organized raid, there's no way to guarantee that you're going to be facing another organized raid. Grouping with 10 people on ventrillo and destroying a bunch of gimps on the opposing force isn't fun either...for either side. That's the reason no Horde plays BG's on my server....facing the fucking MC guild zerg every single goddamned time an instance opens isn't my idea of fun.

[Tuco]

Hey, Blizzard, Furor, whomever.

1. Get rid of the guards.

2. Cross Server Battlegrounds

3. Planned BGs for your raid and your opponents.

4. Ranking ladder by guild / raid leader.

5. Alliance vrs alliance BGs.

Till these are met you've wasted any effort for that fruitcake PVE BG.

[Kolle]

just wait till more BGs are released....instances won't be formed but maybe once a week or so

might as well leave your low/med pop server now

[Suineg]

You die in a battleground you are out unless a player resses you.

period.....

None of the NPC or graveyard stuff. If you don't keep your ressers alive you lose.

Whoever wins can then mine and faction to their hearts content. It would bring some challenge and more fun into it. You definately would get less people going off on their own.

[Jeru]

I think they need to have some sort of simple communication between alliance and horde with the BG's. Somehow there needs to be something, maybe in main cities that when horde/alliance initialize a BG it would say "Hey, the horde are challenging the AV, Come quick"! Have the new battlemasters they are implementing shout over the defense channel. Maybe some sort of board that can have sign ups for it, I dont know, but with no communication I dont see how this will get any better. And with more BG's on the horizon they will only get more and more watered down. The CTF BG is fun, but hey, we all know the fun lasts on that one for about all of 30mins. Then we are all left wanting something more. And with all the shitty tactics to win the CTF that I have seen lately, I dont even really care to play that either.

Something needs to be done or the BG's will be just another zone that is not utilized in anyway!

[Dyscord]

I'd personally really love to see a more CS kinda battleground in WSG. But I doubt it would help really in terms of getting steamrolled by a buncha guys who have played together since day one.

As for AV... make it 20 people. Why in gods name does it have to be a full 40? 20 is twice as managable. A lot of horde guilds, especially on icecrown could easily make a show of 20 people. Or at keep one side at only +5 at most over the other side. This has, of course, been covered ad nausem.

WSG isn't that fun in my opinion because its a FPS staple thrust into the overly complicated world of the MMO. Engineering, alchemy, talents, all rule the day. Coupled with teamwork, preset group makeup, and you're nearly unstopable. My dream is for them to abandon more MMO elements and replace them with more FPS elements.

WSG could be VASTLY improved if it had a more Battlefield 1942/2 interface. When you pop in, you can choose a class. All warriors, all rogues, etc have the same gear. You could spawn a full team of priests if you wanted. Need a paladin? Someone die and respawn as one. Everyone has the same gear, same talents, level playing field. Skill and teamwork will rule the day instead of 'my premade group of own just rolled 10 random people in green gear who had to many hunters and mages'. Hell, since all classes have the same gear, allow for auto balance, and you can join the other team. If you're alliance and get put on the horde team, faction is awarded to the proper place like Stormpike or Silverwing.

I know this idea would be absolutely repugnant to some people, but I think the balance oriented fast paced game of CTF is ready for the intensely complicated world of the MMO. A switch toward more toward staples of FPS than MMO's is needed. Blizzard I had hoped, had always valued gameplay and fun above everything else. Right now they're valuing some sort of artifical barrier from horde and alliance forming into conflict. Well its working, horde and alliance people really hate each other and blame each other for the lack of fun they have in BG's.

[ex-genj]

Since this is today's "fix battlegrounds" thread (and since I haven't posted on one yet), here's my opinion as a leader on my high pop pvp server, ragnaros-killing guild:

Both battlegrounds as they are now are a dismal failure.

The main problem which is continually not being addressed is that the population imbalance kills this game for pvp. Easy solution: contact certain guilds on certain servers. Offer them the chance to switch to horde while retaining equipment. Give paladins the chance to become priests wars or shamans and change their set equipment appropriately. Some guilds will jump at the chance.

If thats not gonna fly, make BGs either same-faction or cross server.

At the same time, fix the nagging bugs in bgs.

Fix the "sprint up the wall" bug.

Fix the MC/BoP bug. For that matter, nerf gnomish MC caps.

Make it so if you /afk out of a BG when you haven't been in it for 10 minutes, you lose 2k CP. It is SO lame to see horde afk out because we're in a guild group, and then we go back into the hour long queue, while they look for a juciy alliance pug.

[Kolle]

Remember when the sites monitoring population started becoming more known? Many threads were made complaining about the imbalance. Blizzard's response? something like...

"Those numbers are not accurate. We have the real data. Don't worry about it."


Well...BGs are released and there's no way they can continue propping up that bullshit lie. It's very clear to the many thousands of players that rarely get to enjoy a BG or have even seen it once. Hell, even playing on high pop server there's no guarentee you'll get to play BG when you want and it's likely that if you try you'll be waiting in a line for several hours...mostly if you're alliance.


So, can they fix the problem? Will they continue doing what they've done about many things, ignoring the problem and shunning the opinions of players trying to discuss a real problem?

For the people who actually get to use this huge PvP feature that sold the game for hundreds of thousands, BGs is a great thing. For the many who don't even get to use the damn thing it is a complete failure thus far.



I feel so fucking sorry for the players on low/medium population servers when they decide to add any more PvP content like extra BGs. It's going to be impossible for any of them to ever accomplish a damn thing. What can they do?

The only solution I can see for the many, many servers who don't have enough players is to not only merge low/medium servers, but also offer a way for the side with way too many to move to the other side with all items, money, and levels intact.

[Grayson Carlyle]

UT CTF >>>> Halo CTF