Itemization

[Zehn - Vhex]

From the Vanguard E3 thread...

How would more weapon/armor customization appeal to you guys? I'm thinking kinda like KOTOR/KOTOR2 type equipment setups.

Let's say at a certian level you can do a quest to earn your "Armor of Faith" we'll call it. Instead of boss mobs dropping meaningless equipment, I think heavy augmentation might be more fun and, ultimatley, more satisfying.

Firstly, it will allow players to more directly control their character customization. Rather then having to rely on the company creating 30 different armor sets each with different stat variations, you can just focus on getting the augments you want.

Personally, I'd rather create my own armor of legend then hunt for some equipment that a dead guy wore 500 years ago.

The exception of course being the relatively rare, powerful and slightly unique equipment.

Basically, instead of dropping "Armplates of Valor, Leggings of Necrophilia and Shades of Supercool", mobs could instead drop 3~4 augments.

Personally, I liked crafting my own lightsaber in KOTOR more then finding some Longsword of Power form ages past.

I'm thinking it would serve the dual purpose of allowing the game to remain item centric, while allowing developers to make certain items that really are identifiable.

And

I've always loved the idea of finding rare ingredients on lootmobs, instead of items. Emperor Sshraezha could drop a couple of diffirent materials like Purified Acrylia, Imperial Grade Leather, Acrylic Woven Cloth, etc. and an assortment of Gemstones like Diamonds, Rubies, Acrylic Chrystals, etc. and each ingredient would add their own type of stat. Raw materials to determine armor class and maybe durability, precious materials (silver/gold/truesilver/etc.) to determine the amount of magic/gemstones a piece can contain and gemstones or runes to add certain stats. You could assign a stat to every basic gemstone (like agi to topaz', mana to sapphires, hp to rubies, etc.) and the more nifty stuff to runes (dmg avoidance or mitigation upgrades, dps upgrades) or something like that.

This would also be more interesting for them item guy I think. The only danger would be how newly introduced materials could possibly offset older combinations, but if the itemguy guards himself well against that (possibly by setting restrictions, like saying acrylia metal is needed to set acrylic chrystal in) you could limit that (which might also be a bad thing on its own ;P).

It also just makes more sense for Emp Ssra to have a precious sample of special Acrylia in his posession than a complete set of multi disciplined armor and weapons on his body.

What do you guys think?

I think it would make more sense and would be much more 'fun' from an itemization standpoint if rather then the new boss mob dropping gear that's a +5 str/stamina upgrade, they intead drop augments with varying effects.

For example, You have a basic set of armor that over time, you modify and augment into an epic set that you yourself created. I'd rather be the hero wearing armor of legend rather then wear armor that belonged to some other hero.

To take a few simple examples, it just doesn't really make sense to me that mobs like Quarm would drop shields, pants, etc...why would he have this shit laying around?

It would make infinately more sense to me if he dropped instead, say, "The Tooth of Quarm" which you can attach to a shield and it adds bonus damage to your shield bashes, or you can attach it to a shoulder piece and it gives you a bonus to your intimidate skill or whatever. He could also drop "Essence of Eternity" which when applied to a casters cloak allows them to instantly cast a spell once every 10 minutes, or whatever.

Certain augments could also change the shape/look of your equipment so not everyone who's using a steel forged BP as the basis for there armor looks exactly the same. Let's say the "Eye of Innoruuk" adds a giant sigil to the front of the armor in addition to granting them better chance of spotting invisible spectre's and ghosts.

If you avoid making +stat's the primary focus of your game, you can better control mudflation. Instead of wanting to kill the new boss mob because he drops a dagger that's a 30 dps upgrade, you want to kill him because he drops a "Ioun Stone of Solidarity" that gives you a +5 vs. drama queens or whatthefuckever.

I think it would greatly reduce the risk of "druid gear again? Fuck sakes"

For those that need rare artifacts to identify, you can still have some ancient powerful wizard drop his staff with a unique graphic to it and whatnot.

[Kolle]

I'm 100% for removing class specific drops.


Those things only belong on solo quests or quests with steps that involve things a raid would be killing anyway regardless of your quest.

[Braen]

A great idea. Less chance of pure mulflation. Also since players can upgrade for need the itemization people don't ahve to spend months hoping the set progression rate is just right. Something WoW is still fighting with.

There will still be the rare sets out there. But the upgrades allow you to make the armor your own instead of you using something that someone else had.

All these ideas coming out after E3 are making this game sound more and more ownish.

[Qhue]

Class specific itemization is silly. Especially whole suits of class specific items that are scattered across the globe on different monsters. It chips away at the suspension of disbelief when Glorog King of all Hill Giants happens to be carrying a cleric specific sweater that just so happens to perfectly match the pair of clerical sport pumps that the Hag of Hovarth Swamp was wearing.

Sure if you are fighting the Grand Vizier of Alath who is a renouned sorcerer then it makes sense that he is wearing a pretty spiffy robe that your magic users would like but it has to be within reason here people.


Look at the original EQ. The Robe of the Arch Magi dropped off *gasp* the Ghoul Arch Mage. The illusion mask dropped off a hidden assassin froglok etc. Sure a Dragon or a grand leader might have certain treasures in his/her treasure chamber that they kept around just because they were powerful and magical and best kept away from pesky adventurer types, but thats about it.

Stop with the Diablo esque YYY armor of XXX dropping off a freaking tiger in the middle of the grasslands. If you want armor either kill someone who is WEARING nice armor or go make the stuff from rare and exotic enchanted materials. (Maybe you need bits from the tiger properly enchanted to make something and so the tiger drops that instead)

[Itzena]

Originally posted by Qhue
Stop with the Diablo esque YYY armor of XXX dropping off a freaking tiger in the middle of the grasslands.

I always saw that as peeling the item off of the half-eaten corpse of the poor sod the beastie killed last, but hey - must be a holdover from my D&D days.

[0hz]

Sorry...

I have trouble kidding myself into believing that...

-Replacing +5 dps upgrade swords with +5 dps upgrade gems is somehow interesting or innovative.

-That augments with class specific effects would be signifigantly different from mobs filtered not to drop unusable gear or quest based multiple-choice rewards.

-That augments without class specific effects would not lead to boring "tank-mage" homogenization.

-That any augment system would not eventually result in the same kind of "template" end-game characters we see now.

These games need to be reinvented from the ground up before there's any hope of worthwhile differences in itemization schemes.

As it stands, they will all be gimmicky variations that boil down to the same thing.

Trying to address the itemization first is simply backwards. It's the underlying "roll the dice and whack a slime" systems that need work.

[Dynalisia]

Half of the things you mention aren't even objectives of building an item system based on components rather than complete items, 0hz.

Also, screaming that stuff needs to be reinvented, rebuilt from the ground up, started anew from sratch or whatever is easy enough to say and sounds pretty catchy but is in reality one of the the least possible things to happen.
I know half this board is still hoping for some messias like developer to come by and rearrange the fabric of space and time for them, but for now theres more to be gained by discussing how to modify mechanics in the framework of the existing MMO's imo and hopefully have some small influence on a developer out there who's financers already require him to create something that is based on mechanics that have been proven to work commercially, instead of realizing his own dream.

[Tripamang]

I want the 20 different armor sets, I want people to look different. I want to recognize someones weapon, and I want someone to recognize mine.

I like unique looking shit that shows off the fact that I accomplished something.

I can't see an augmentation system doing this, I can't see anything other 100's of people all looking the same.

[Braen]

Originally posted by Tripamang
I want the 20 different armor sets, I want people to look different. I want to recognize someones weapon, and I want someone to recognize mine.

I like unique looking shit that shows off the fact that I accomplished something.

I can't see an augmentation system doing this, I can't see anything other 100's of people all looking the same.

I believe Brad said he wants both, but the augments will add another level of customization. What if you liked the way a certai armor looked and you could just enhance it's stats with augs instead of HAVING to change yoru look?

[Tripamang]

Originally posted by Braen
I believe Brad said he wants both, but the augments will add another level of customization. What if you liked the way a certai armor looked and you could just enhance it's stats with augs instead of HAVING to change yoru look?

I was referring to the example that was given in the first post, about the armor of faith =p

Man you've got Vanguard on the brain.

[Braen]

Originally posted by Tripamang
I was referring to the example that was given in the first post, about the armor of faith =p

Man you've got Vanguard on the Brean.

Fixed... And you are right. Back to work with me!

[Kreugen]

Cool, that way DKP whores can loot ALL the items, and not just the ones for their class.

Jenamdar will love it!

[MinionOfCthulhu]

Originally posted by Zehn_Druidbane
Instead of wanting to kill the new boss mob because he drops a dagger that's a 30 dps upgrade, you want to kill him because he drops a "Ioun Stone of Solidarity" that gives you a +5 vs. drama queens or whatthefuckever.

I don't know if you just pulled 'Ioun Stone' out of thin air, but I'd love to see ioun stones in Vanguard. They're badass. Not insanely powerful, but there's nothing quite like having several little gems lazily orbit your head and grant you powers.

[Samus Aran]

I really don't like the idea posed in the first quote...the Armor of Faith thing.

To me, one of the worst aspects of L2 was the fact that EVERY ITEM was just a +magic/physical attack or +magic/physical defense.

There was nothing else (I think they may have added in something that gave more mana or something, not sure though). Do I want to play a game where I will have lore-less gear? No.

I want to play a game where I am willing to use a less powerful weapon/armor because a) the lore/place it comes from is cool, b) the item is rare and coveted, and c) the item looks cool.

If they go with an augment route, they might as well just let everyone run around naked and let the stones upgrade their stats.

[Braen]

Again I am hoping for a mixture of the two ideas. The way EQ1 did with LDoNs. You could take that new piece of armor or you can upgrade your current armor with an augment or two.

Makes the armor feel less like a placeholder for your next set, especailly if you grow attached to your look.