caster vs. melee

Nyceane · 05-25-2005, 02:05 AM

some thoughts on mmo in general

why is that every caster has to have every spell while not every melee needs to have the best weapon

if a warlock cant get inferno/doomguard he'll whine
if a warrior cant get ragnoras' hammer he won't whine

if a mage cant get arcane missle (rank 15 or something) he will whine
if a rogue can't get the best dagger he won't whine

in EQ it didnt matter that much due to lack of pvp, but in WoW, if you see someone with a deathbringer/ragnoras' hammer you will run, because you will get pwned in 1v1 situation. this doesnt apply to casters, you will still gank any caster no matter what they have.

isnt this something that should be looked into?

Zehn - Vhex · 05-25-2005, 02:21 AM

Because of the huge gaps in power.

Caster DPS tends to go in jumps, like 10~30~70~200 dps

Whereas Melee DPS tends to scale

10-20-30-40-50-60....-400 dps

etc...

And casters are already way behind the curve to begin with, that melee using their 8th best weapon can still put out more dps then a caster using their best spells.

Multiple people have pointed out how to solve this problem (magic atk power, wands being main form of dps with spells being the 'special attacks' similar to execute and whatnot, more static forms of DPS, casters relying on more dynamic spell power bars rather then mana, etc...etc...)

However, in the meantime, just shrug your shoulders and realize you're only paying 15 bucks a month for this.

Nyceane · 05-25-2005, 02:36 AM

that wont make as much difference as you see someone with ragnoras' hammer, you turn around and run as fast as possible.

seriously, caster needs that sort of stuff, which intend to be rare. if an item can be epic, why cant a spell.

Kolle · 05-25-2005, 02:38 AM

The changes to wands will help at least. If you're a mage and run outa mana, you could autowand and at least sustain some dps, especially if you got the talent.

I would like to see mana go away first of all. All spells need to be on basic timers and cooldowns. You regulate their use by how often someone uses spells from different schools and sets such that they can't spam a single spell infinitely without having negative effects (longer cooldowns, reduced potency), but with the right timing and spell usage you could sustain constant spell casting. You can't spam your 800 dmg nuke forever, but you can continue to contribute regardless of mana since it doesn't exist.

This could be put into the interface as a type of wheel. The more positive you are the faster your spells cooldown and you get bonus damage. The more into the negative (or however you want to display it) can have adverse effects like longer cooldowns, but could also have added benefits over positive that would cause spell users to be more strategic.

For example, if you stay positive then your cooldowns are low and you get a % bonus to damage and effects. If you go too far negative then your cooldowns become longer, but your spells could gain secondary effects. These could be good, bad, or both.

Zehn - Vhex · 05-25-2005, 03:03 AM

Wands are pretty badass now actually. I'm almost considering trading my 10% less mana cost on instants for 25% increase in wand damage.

It's almost a godsend for priests because we can't use our mana for anything but healing. So to be able to add even a little dps when it's our turn to med = gold.

Metranon · 05-25-2005, 04:12 AM

if i see someone with ragnaros's hammer, i stand and fight because i know they have an epic mount likely as well and can easily catch up to me and kill me even if i run

BirgittePovar · 05-25-2005, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nyceane
some thoughts on mmo in general

why is that every caster has to have every spell while not every melee needs to have the best weapon

if a warlock cant get inferno/doomguard he'll whine
if a warrior cant get ragnoras' hammer he won't whine

if a mage cant get arcane missle (rank 15 or something) he will whine
if a rogue can't get the best dagger he won't whine

in EQ it didnt matter that much due to lack of pvp, but in WoW, if you see someone with a deathbringer/ragnoras' hammer you will run, because you will get pwned in 1v1 situation. this doesnt apply to casters, you will still gank any caster no matter what they have.

isnt this something that should be looked into?

Hmm. Why are you relating Melee gear to caster spells anyway?

Melee would be equally pissed if they couldn't get their level 60 skills as Casters are who can't get their level 60 spells.

Casters are equally unpissed at not being able to get their end game gear as melee are to not getting their end game gear.

You were comparing Apples to oranges. Compare apples to apples and things are the same for both.

Bizanich · 05-25-2005, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nyceane
that wont make as much difference as you see someone with ragnoras' hammer, you turn around and run as fast as possible.

I disagree. I have an Arcanite Reaper and would not run, I'd use my whipper roots/night dragons/major heal pots and kick his ass.

/overconfident

05-25-2005, 02:05 AM	#1 (permalink)
Nyceane >_< Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 363 -9 Internets	caster vs. melee some thoughts on mmo in general why is that every caster has to have every spell while not every melee needs to have the best weapon if a warlock cant get inferno/doomguard he'll whine if a warrior cant get ragnoras' hammer he won't whine if a mage cant get arcane missle (rank 15 or something) he will whine if a rogue can't get the best dagger he won't whine in EQ it didnt matter that much due to lack of pvp, but in WoW, if you see someone with a deathbringer/ragnoras' hammer you will run, because you will get pwned in 1v1 situation. this doesnt apply to casters, you will still gank any caster no matter what they have. isnt this something that should be looked into?

05-25-2005, 02:38 AM	#4 (permalink)
Kolle Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 4,879 -26 Internets	The changes to wands will help at least. If you're a mage and run outa mana, you could autowand and at least sustain some dps, especially if you got the talent. I would like to see mana go away first of all. All spells need to be on basic timers and cooldowns. You regulate their use by how often someone uses spells from different schools and sets such that they can't spam a single spell infinitely without having negative effects (longer cooldowns, reduced potency), but with the right timing and spell usage you could sustain constant spell casting. You can't spam your 800 dmg nuke forever, but you can continue to contribute regardless of mana since it doesn't exist. This could be put into the interface as a type of wheel. The more positive you are the faster your spells cooldown and you get bonus damage. The more into the negative (or however you want to display it) can have adverse effects like longer cooldowns, but could also have added benefits over positive that would cause spell users to be more strategic. For example, if you stay positive then your cooldowns are low and you get a % bonus to damage and effects. If you go too far negative then your cooldowns become longer, but your spells could gain secondary effects. These could be good, bad, or both. Last edited by Kolle : 05-25-2005 at 02:43 AM.

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05-25-2005, 02:21 AM	#2 (permalink)
Zehn - Vhex Lord of the Dance Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 6,261 +53 Internets	Because of the huge gaps in power. Caster DPS tends to go in jumps, like 10~30~70~200 dps Whereas Melee DPS tends to scale 10-20-30-40-50-60....-400 dps etc... And casters are already way behind the curve to begin with, that melee using their 8th best weapon can still put out more dps then a caster using their best spells. Multiple people have pointed out how to solve this problem (magic atk power, wands being main form of dps with spells being the 'special attacks' similar to execute and whatnot, more static forms of DPS, casters relying on more dynamic spell power bars rather then mana, etc...etc...) However, in the meantime, just shrug your shoulders and realize you're only paying 15 bucks a month for this.

05-25-2005, 02:36 AM	#3 (permalink)
Nyceane >_< Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 363 -9 Internets	that wont make as much difference as you see someone with ragnoras' hammer, you turn around and run as fast as possible. seriously, caster needs that sort of stuff, which intend to be rare. if an item can be epic, why cant a spell.

05-25-2005, 03:03 AM	#5 (permalink)
Zehn - Vhex Lord of the Dance Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 6,261 +53 Internets	Wands are pretty badass now actually. I'm almost considering trading my 10% less mana cost on instants for 25% increase in wand damage. It's almost a godsend for priests because we can't use our mana for anything but healing. So to be able to add even a little dps when it's our turn to med = gold.

05-25-2005, 04:12 AM	#6 (permalink)
Metranon Banned Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 1,599 +0 Internets	if i see someone with ragnaros's hammer, i stand and fight because i know they have an epic mount likely as well and can easily catch up to me and kill me even if i run