Anyone have new patch notes?

[xlurkerx]

Originally posted by Zehn_Druidbane
Consider yourself lucky, we've got Fang as our representative and he thinks the Holy tree makes us better healers then paladins.

Hey man I've been using prayer of fortitude rank 2 for months now at level 60 but fangtooth says I need rank 1 to use it sir!

gogo clueless CMs

[Kolle]

I have to admit fang seems kinda clueless. But then again I don't watch him all day so maybe he knows something we don't.



Holy tree could benefit greatly from a few, simple changes. I understand why they can't make it produce uber healing priests. I wouldn't suggest that it should. In my mind Holy doesn't necessarily equal healing. To me it's just a theme. Same with Shadow and Discipline.

No matter which you take to 31, you should heal somewhat equally. Different trees should be all about flavor and and tactical styles. For example they should expand on the Holy fire concept more with a few different spell lines that makes a Holy/Disc priest able to solo/pvp just as well as a Shadow/Disc. Simply put the really nice talents near the bottom so you can't do everything.

They could also expand upon the vampiric embrace idea with a few new spell lines so that shadow priests could keep a group alive even in shadowform. Discipline has room for lots of creativity with shield variants and preventitive/passive spell lines that could be added.

[rukidding]

Maybe have the holy tree add a small dd to your heals that hits your party member's current target. Flash Heal + 5 talent points = 150 dd on each heal.

(edited for clarity)

[Regime]

or maybe holy can add a little more defense (better armour buff) or make IF a 30 min timer

[Zehn - Vhex]

Some examples of changes to the tree that I've seen. It's sad that after improved renew and spiritual healing, the only half-assed decent talent is the -20% mana cost on PoH...but if I'm ever spam-casting that we're in trouble to begin with.

1) Talent that causes critical heals to act like a rune rather then regular heal. No intelligent healer relies on criticals and will -always- pre-emptively begin heals to prevent such a situation from arising.

2) Talent that gives you a 2~10% chance when casting a heal spell to proc a self buff that causes your next smite spell to be insta cast, manaless and agroless.

3) Holy Nova should be on a 20 second cast timer (they are moving it to 30, but unless they seriously revamp the rest of the tree, it's not worth 30 points to get.) It should also only be a tier 4 ability rather then end tier.

4) Spirit of redemption should be a targetable 'debuff' castable once every 5 minute on a mob so when it dies, it heals your group for the 1~3kish.

5) Combat Medic spell as top tier. 400 mana, 30 second recast, dispells all negative effects on a target.

This would justify giving up silence, extended fade and mind flay. As it is right now, the 21-9-21 build is optimal. You get all the necessary talents from shadow for pvp while in no way gimping yourself PvE wise.

[findar]

im a fan of 31/20 holy/disc

but i also drank paint once.

[Duppin]

Originally posted by Kolle

Holy tree could benefit greatly from a few, simple changes. I understand why they can't make it produce uber healing priests. I wouldn't suggest that it should. In my mind Holy doesn't necessarily equal healing. To me it's just a theme. Same with Shadow and Discipline.

Here's the problem, though. There really isn't anything else to DO with Holy tree, other than make it buff healing. Plus there's evidence in the existing stuff in the tree that they were TRYING to make it produce uber healers and just didn't know how to get it done.

Plus, if you make holy/disc/shadow all heal about the same, why would you go Holy? They'd have to add a lot of "cool factor" in order to make it desirable over shadow or disc.

I just don't see what other direction they could possibly go with Holy other than making it produce substantially better healers than the other trees. This assumes that they'll be making any changes at all, which it doesn't sound so far like they're inclined to do, according to Fangtooth's most recent post on the subject.

And yes, Fangtooth like the other CMs is pretty worthless.

[role]

Healing doesn't need to grow faster than gear inflation. Not requiring priests is plenty fine with me.

Priests should just get other abilties instead of being EQ style vital healing. I think bumps to Priest defensive abilities would be great. Maybe a slight bump to their dps. Changes that would make the class more involved to play would be super too.

I'd also like to see poly and ports spread out to other classes but I'm not sure priests should get either.

The viability of priests has been really crippled since alpha. Removal of poly, combat drinking, tradable soulstones, and crippling of spirit being huge blows to the class.

[ChewieTobbacca]

If they changed Holy Nova to group Inner Fire i'd respec immediately

Theres many ways they could make this shit better

Priests often complain about fear trinket on rogues and getting poisoned so they're defenseless - which is true in many ways, how about make Fade a short duration agro reducer as well as immunity to crippling effects?

I can think of numerous ways to make this shit better in creative ways

[Elgonn]

Originally posted by Duppin
Here's the problem, though. There really isn't anything else to DO with Holy tree, other than make it buff healing.

I have an idea for a very simple method of making Holy better at healing and not screwing the end game. Although the percentages might have to be tweaked a little.

Holy Talent Tree Finale 31 points:

Mark of Life (Rank 1)
Instant Cast
10 Minute Duration
20 Minute Cooldown

Target Player gains +50% effect from healing spells cast by the caster of Mark of Life.

Caster also has all other healing spells cast on non-marked players reduced by 50%.

Rank 2 (lvl 50): +75%, Rank 3 (lvl 60): +100% [Downside stays the same]

Mark of Life cannot be dispelled in any fashion and cannot be overwritten by any other casting. It must wear off over time (or death I guess).

The main reason why you don't want to buff Holy's healing is that you'll be afraid that ALL boss DPS will be upgraded to have to cope and therefore making non-Holy and Druid/Shaman/Paly useless in theory. The key to this change is that you can't "stack" holy priests unless your using multiple tanks which seems fair to me. Might make a few 5 man instance fights too easy though when you can guarantee all the damage on the MT.

[Duppin]

Personally, what /I'd/ like to see is something like HV/GV in EQ for the Holy tree, or for priests in general.

It'd be new, additional utility that isn't ingame yet, and wouldn't require upsetting the balance of healing power.

[yknits]

Originally posted by Elgonn
The main reason why you don't want to buff Holy's healing is that you'll be afraid that ALL boss DPS will be upgraded to have to cope and therefore making non-Holy and Druid/Shaman/Paly useless in theory. The key to this change is that you can't "stack" holy priests unless your using multiple tanks which seems fair to me. Might make a few 5 man instance fights too easy though when you can guarantee all the damage on the MT.

um no....

God forbid that you need less priests? Whats that? Some guilds fielding 8 priests in MC? WTF..... Making holy spec priests better healers only does 1 thing.... means less priests required. It wont knock the other healers. They will still have their spots to shine. I do understand some guilds only field 4-6 priests but what if 4 holy was enough? No more 3 -> 3 rotations... now 2->2 rotations?

Bottom line is that buffing priest healing wont break the game. It will only mean that you need to refine your strat on healing and maybe use less at a time. Big heals might become viable with a holy revamp.

5 man instances are already a joke even without a priest. I've managed to do king with a sham healer.... WTF who would have thought. Lets not over think this. We tend to say... OH SHIT SUCKS FIX IT.... OH FUCK SHIT'S TOO EASY MAKE IT HARDER.... OH SHIT ANOTHER COCKBLOCK THIS SHIT IS BROKEN.... BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Ever think the biggest problem with MMO's is the constant bitching by players and the attempt to please the consumer thus fucking up all that was once sacred in vision.... resulting in a piece of crap spiral downward and silence from "THE MAN WHO LOST TOUCH OF HIS PROJECT."

I think we need to play the game. Fuck the rules. Fuck the problems. Fuck the conspiracy theories and Fuck everyone who forgot how to LET GO and actually experience a game WHAT EVER GAME THAT IS. It is not so broken we cant have fun. STFU.


P.S. I play a warlock... yeah.... a broken class.

[Elgonn]

Originally posted by yknits
I do understand some guilds only field 4-6 priests but what if 4 holy was enough? No more 3 -> 3 rotations... now 2->2 rotations?

The point I was trying to make was that in most situations that the above holy healing increase only creates a single phantom priest for the MT. No matter how many holy priests you have you'll only get one "phantom" extra one. Because even in MC you aren't going to be fighting for 10+ minutes on a single mob. If you find that still too short than just increase the duration.

Holy Priests should be better and healing while getting some fun utility (like the earlier mentioned free holy smite or extra DD as an assist). What you can't have happen is allowing the extra healing to stack.

[findar]

priests had sleep, not poly.

[yknits]

Originally posted by Elgonn
The point I was trying to make was that in most situations that the above holy healing increase only creates a single phantom priest for the MT. No matter how many holy priests you have you'll only get one "phantom" extra one. Because even in MC you aren't going to be fighting for 10+ minutes on a single mob. If you find that still too short than just increase the duration.

Holy Priests should be better and healing while getting some fun utility (like the earlier mentioned free holy smite or extra DD as an assist). What you can't have happen is allowing the extra healing to stack.

No what you would do by creating the "PHANTOM" priest is reduce the number of priests needed to that of a warlock class?

How many warlocks do you guys take on raids? 3-4? 2? 1? Not many I can pretty much assume. Why should priest be that different. And who says a holy spec revamp would only make it better for the MT? The example i gave was simply to show that we could reduce the number "required" to go into MC and win.

You see.... I usually have to box a priest at raids to make myself and the rest of the guild comfortable. Wouldnt be nice if we just reduced the amount of priests needed from say 6-8 to the magic 4-5?

HONESTLY. How is making a holy spec priest a better healer gonna break the game? And creating a spec that might create a "phantom" priest on MT... HOW IS THIS BAD? It isnt like its gonna break the rest of them game. There are PVP builds and Raid builds and hybrid builds. My example is that I am a warlock.... darkpact build for raiding. It doesnt make me overpowered for raiding but it does give me the ability to be more free with mana. In pvp it would be better if I went soul-link or full destruction (AE). I also have a restoration spec sham. He does just fine for PVP. Sure he would do better if he were enhancement or elemental but he is not. He is better suited for helping heal. The point I am trying to make is that by making the priest better healer on raids by doing holy spec isnt that far off from what it seem's like they were TRYING to do. Shadow priests will still have a place on raids due to the fact they are still PRIESTS OMFG, they just wont be as good of healers.