Anyone have new patch notes? - Page 3

Velk · 05-08-2005, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ameraves Loyalheart
You dont seem to understand. Nobody wants mages to do the same sustained DPS as rogues.

Sorry, I rather thought that was exactly what the person I was replying to was saying, which is why I said that.

Not having a reliable mechanism for increasing dps for casters, I agree, is a problem, if hardly an insurmountable one. They don't even need to change game mechanics - just add new spell drops to the boss mobs.

Why they haven't actually done this is another question entirely.

We agree that a mage should not do equal dps to a rogue, so from there it's a matter of how much. Does Blizz think it should be 90%, but they are slacking ? Do they think it should be 50% and are happy ?

What % of a rogue dps do you think a mage should be, and how about a warlock ?

Bizanich · 05-08-2005, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Velk

Not having a reliable mechanism for increasing dps for casters, I agree, is a problem, if hardly an insurmountable one. They don't even need to change game mechanics - just add new spell drops to the boss mobs.

Why they haven't actually done this is another question entirely.

That would kind of go against the whole "this game is for casuals" type thing

.

TrooperEbonblade · 05-09-2005, 01:58 AM

The whole melee get upgrades through weapons, casters don't thing has been around since EQ1. Remember when they added certain spells that only dropped off certain named? Like the Sunfire upgrade that dropped off the Emperor.

Casters freaked out that not everyone could have these spells. They were so used to getting their highest DPS spell in the first week of an expansion.

Zehn - Vhex · 05-09-2005, 04:33 AM

The thing about sunstrike and the like, was there was no intermediate. It was either 100 dps or 200 dps from super boss. There were no 125 dps, 150 dps, 175 dps intermediate upgrades.

The fact of the matter is that developers are retards and until they hire people who can realize that the current system is the most fucking retarded out there, we're fucked anyways.

Torrid · 05-09-2005, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Digo
Anyone else find it amusing that a month ago, many of us were bitching about how rogues had been marginalized in MC? Then when reliable parsing mods come out....

HOLY SHIT, ROGUES HAVE GIGANTIC DPeniS.

Five things happened that made rogues more desirable since the early days of MC:

- They retuned some AoEs to be less gay
- They made MC pussy easy, thereby freeing up more healing for rogues
- CT Raid Assist
- Tank aggro increased, letting rogues get away with more damage
- Itemization favoring the fuck out of melee

On top of that, add in player skill just plain getting better + knowing the encounters, which further helped keep the rogues alive to do their jobs.

Glad I switched classes from rogue to mage!

Fris_Leafshadow · 05-09-2005, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Velk
Sorry, I rather thought that was exactly what the person I was replying to was saying, which is why I said that.

Not having a reliable mechanism for increasing dps for casters, I agree, is a problem, if hardly an insurmountable one. They don't even need to change game mechanics - just add new spell drops to the boss mobs.

Why they haven't actually done this is another question entirely.

We agree that a mage should not do equal dps to a rogue, so from there it's a matter of how much. Does Blizz think it should be 90%, but they are slacking ? Do they think it should be 50% and are happy ?

What % of a rogue dps do you think a mage should be, and how about a warlock ?

I would say that mages should come close to rogue dps as long as they have mana. Thus, the long fights when they ahve to stop to regain mana will favor rogues.

My guild just started using this and I didn't make MC this weekend. Thursday afternoon, we ran through UBRS again as a few guildies still need onxyia keys. Because we ae'd so much of the zone, the 2 mages were the top 2 in dps. I managed to be #1 in a close fight, but it resulted in about 6 deaths and being #2 in damage taken just before Drak.

Im a fire mage and refuse to change. Its the style I like to play and it makes mre more deadly in pvp. Ya, my arch msls suck in MC and on Onxyia. We've only killed the 1st 3 or 4 bosses in MC, I hate to think what we'll be doing once our rogues and hutners get weapon upgrades.

One thing people are missing is enchants. melee have tons of options for good dps increasing enchants, why can't there be a +100 spell damage, -.5 casting time on damage spells or something type buffs on 2hstaff or wand?

Algol Devilstar · 05-09-2005, 07:15 AM

you telling me the difference between melee and casters is enchants? Uhm +9 dmg to 2h is pretty weak considering some weps are 300dmg. That's what... 3% more dmg? The caster problem is a little more than a 3% difference. However you are right in that there should be caster enchants.

Esmo · 05-09-2005, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Digo
Anyone else find it amusing that a month ago, many of us were bitching about how rogues had been marginalized in MC? Then when reliable parsing mods come out....

HOLY SHIT, ROGUES HAVE GIGANTIC DPeniS.

A month ago the melees weren't as well equipped so the damage gap wasn't as wide though it still existed.

This is precisely Kreugen's issue. Itemization gives the melees noticeably large gains while casters get next to nothing from their 'upgrades'.

SpuddsSpudsly · 05-09-2005, 08:05 AM

If you take a quick look through mage spells you see the best damage/cast time spell they have is fireball which does 561-715 fire damage +72 over time. This would give a mage roughly 220 dps (which could get boosted some by instant fire blasts every 8 seconds) if they chain casted it one after another for the entire fight. This puts a ceiling on the amount of damage a mage COULD possibly do, which is surprisingly close to the amount of damage rogues actually do without the hinderance of mana.

Of course this is a very crude calculation, things like talents and crits increase your dps, but then again you can't really use fire on anything important in game not to mention every fire mage takes atleast 1/8th of your debuff slots.

Fris_Leafshadow · 05-09-2005, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Algol Devilstar
you telling me the difference between melee and casters is enchants? Uhm +9 dmg to 2h is pretty weak considering some weps are 300dmg. That's what... 3% more dmg? The caster problem is a little more than a 3% difference. However you are right in that there should be caster enchants.

not the only diff, but one i'm yet to see mentioned. +9 damage isn't much, but what's the bonus of those 60g enchanges? Icychill or crusader? no idea what they do but i figure they gota be good to cost that much.

if its not damage, would be nice for me to have an enchant that would proc a 500 point rune or something randomly...

Quote:

Originally posted by SpuddsSpudsly
If you take a quick look through mage spells you see the best damage/cast time spell they have is fireball which does 561-715 fire damage +72 over time. This would give a mage roughly 220 dps (which could get boosted some by instant fire blasts every 8 seconds) if they chain casted it one after another for the entire fight. This puts a ceiling on the amount of damage a mage COULD possibly do, which is surprisingly close to the amount of damage rogues actually do without the hinderance of mana.

Of course this is a very crude calculation, things like talents and crits increase your dps, but then again you can't really use fire on anything important in game not to mention every fire mage takes atleast 1/8th of your debuff slots.

dont worry about crit, that's pretty even between melee and casters. maybe a easier for melee, but i'll live w/ that.

the prob w/ fire is how crappy it is in end level pve. useless on onxyia (even w/ the new scorch ability, we can't but debuffs for fear of knocking off warlock dots), about useless in MC.

findar · 05-09-2005, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fris_Leafshadow
not the only diff, but one i'm yet to see mentioned. +9 damage isn't much, but what's the bonus of those 60g enchanges? Icychill or crusader? no idea what they do but i figure they gota be good to cost that much.

if its not damage, would be nice for me to have an enchant that would proc a 500 point rune or something randomly...

crusader is a 100hp heal + str buff.

icychill is a snare.

Kolle · 05-09-2005, 10:53 AM

I can't remember which console rpg I saw this in, but I think it would work for WoW casters. They can give these to priest, mage, warlock, and druid at least I suppose.

You get a set amount of tatoo spaces to start with. The loot you use for those spaces is a type of rune. These things don't give stats, but effects. Obviously they could be used for something as simple as +dmg or +healing, but the potential is there for things a lot more interesting. Spell conversion is one thing that could be unique to them. A permanent version of this would be an effect that causes all heal spells to convert a small percent of their power into giving mana, rage, and energy to your targets. A version with a more temporary use could be something that converts all your fire-based spells to nature for a set amount of time.

You start with 1 or 2 spaces for these and they could add in hard and rewarding quests to gain more spaces. Bosses can drop these runes, they can come from quests, or whatever they wanted to do.

Remf da Troll · 05-09-2005, 01:18 PM

Hola-

No real opinion about mages except that they are very fun to combo kill (aimed/multi/auto/arcane) when they are channeling AEs in pvp. Especially gnome ones.

But, regarding patches, did anyone else find it interesting that:
a). the CMs have been hinting that BG would be out "soon".
b). there's a pvp ranking-based raffle for new nvidia video cards right now
and c). that competition ends on may 24th... a Tuesday?

Might be just wishful thinking, but I'd still bet BG patches in on May 24. I hope. Daily TM zergfest is getting really, really old...

RdT.

Elgonn · 05-09-2005, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Remf da Troll
Daily TM zergfest is getting really, really old...

They've stated that the Alterac BG is the one for level 60s. So if BGs have ANY lines at all... TM will still be a zergfest.

Zehn - Vhex · 05-09-2005, 02:07 PM

I've always felt that DPS should be a nearly static figure. As expansions come and go, our versatility and survivability should increase, but our DPS should remain a steady constant.

But I also feel that all classes should have nearly equal DPS over any given time frame and that the focus should be on the other abilities a class brings to the group. Having "DPS" classes just makes everybody else fucking useless once you cover your bases. Imagine how easy ragnaros would be with 20 rogues. No class should have -that- much of an effect on an encounter. Maing them worthless in 80% of other encounters so you either have to keep switching people out to achieve 'optimal' efficiency or take a gimp raid group is just as poor designing as well.

It's like in EQ where you only needed one druid for 9's and one paladin for brells. Because of the Clerics being best Healers, Warriors being best Tanks and Wizards/Rogues being best DPS, you really didn't need to bring much of else. "Dream" raid makeups were usually something like 3 tanks, 8 clerics, 2 bards and 40 wizards.

05-09-2005, 10:53 AM	#42 (permalink)
Kolle Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 4,879 -26 Internets	I can't remember which console rpg I saw this in, but I think it would work for WoW casters. They can give these to priest, mage, warlock, and druid at least I suppose. You get a set amount of tatoo spaces to start with. The loot you use for those spaces is a type of rune. These things don't give stats, but effects. Obviously they could be used for something as simple as +dmg or +healing, but the potential is there for things a lot more interesting. Spell conversion is one thing that could be unique to them. A permanent version of this would be an effect that causes all heal spells to convert a small percent of their power into giving mana, rage, and energy to your targets. A version with a more temporary use could be something that converts all your fire-based spells to nature for a set amount of time. You start with 1 or 2 spaces for these and they could add in hard and rewarding quests to gain more spaces. Bosses can drop these runes, they can come from quests, or whatever they wanted to do. Last edited by Kolle : 05-09-2005 at 10:55 AM.

05-09-2005, 01:18 PM	#43 (permalink)
Remf da Troll Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 113 -1 Internets	patch notes, lack of... Hola- No real opinion about mages except that they are very fun to combo kill (aimed/multi/auto/arcane) when they are channeling AEs in pvp. Especially gnome ones. But, regarding patches, did anyone else find it interesting that: a). the CMs have been hinting that BG would be out "soon". b). there's a pvp ranking-based raffle for new nvidia video cards right now and c). that competition ends on may 24th... a Tuesday? Might be just wishful thinking, but I'd still bet BG patches in on May 24. I hope. Daily TM zergfest is getting really, really old... RdT.

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05-09-2005, 01:58 AM	#33 (permalink)
TrooperEbonblade Minus Internets for 5 year old post. Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 404 +0 Internets	The whole melee get upgrades through weapons, casters don't thing has been around since EQ1. Remember when they added certain spells that only dropped off certain named? Like the Sunfire upgrade that dropped off the Emperor. Casters freaked out that not everyone could have these spells. They were so used to getting their highest DPS spell in the first week of an expansion.

05-09-2005, 04:33 AM	#34 (permalink)
Zehn - Vhex Lord of the Dance Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 6,240 +54 Internets	The thing about sunstrike and the like, was there was no intermediate. It was either 100 dps or 200 dps from super boss. There were no 125 dps, 150 dps, 175 dps intermediate upgrades. The fact of the matter is that developers are retards and until they hire people who can realize that the current system is the most fucking retarded out there, we're fucked anyways.

05-09-2005, 07:15 AM	#37 (permalink)
Algol Devilstar Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The NW Posts: 3,497 +0 Internets	you telling me the difference between melee and casters is enchants? Uhm +9 dmg to 2h is pretty weak considering some weps are 300dmg. That's what... 3% more dmg? The caster problem is a little more than a 3% difference. However you are right in that there should be caster enchants.

05-09-2005, 08:05 AM	#39 (permalink)
SpuddsSpudsly Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 21 -1 Internets	If you take a quick look through mage spells you see the best damage/cast time spell they have is fireball which does 561-715 fire damage +72 over time. This would give a mage roughly 220 dps (which could get boosted some by instant fire blasts every 8 seconds) if they chain casted it one after another for the entire fight. This puts a ceiling on the amount of damage a mage COULD possibly do, which is surprisingly close to the amount of damage rogues actually do without the hinderance of mana. Of course this is a very crude calculation, things like talents and crits increase your dps, but then again you can't really use fire on anything important in game not to mention every fire mage takes atleast 1/8th of your debuff slots.

05-09-2005, 02:07 PM	#45 (permalink)
Zehn - Vhex Lord of the Dance Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 6,240 +54 Internets	I've always felt that DPS should be a nearly static figure. As expansions come and go, our versatility and survivability should increase, but our DPS should remain a steady constant. But I also feel that all classes should have nearly equal DPS over any given time frame and that the focus should be on the other abilities a class brings to the group. Having "DPS" classes just makes everybody else fucking useless once you cover your bases. Imagine how easy ragnaros would be with 20 rogues. No class should have -that- much of an effect on an encounter. Maing them worthless in 80% of other encounters so you either have to keep switching people out to achieve 'optimal' efficiency or take a gimp raid group is just as poor designing as well. It's like in EQ where you only needed one druid for 9's and one paladin for brells. Because of the Clerics being best Healers, Warriors being best Tanks and Wizards/Rogues being best DPS, you really didn't need to bring much of else. "Dream" raid makeups were usually something like 3 tanks, 8 clerics, 2 bards and 40 wizards.