Guild Point Systems

Aulirophile · 04-18-2005, 06:54 AM

I recall FoH as being a merit/officer decision guild, but since just about anyone who would know about DKP systems frequents this board, I was hoping for some help.

I'm starting a guild to try and do high end encounters and would like to institute a fair DKP system that doesn't take too much time to keep updated.

I was wondering what variants people have personally used that worked for their guild and why? I want recent activity and high attendance to matter more then seniority to at least some degree. Has a class heirarchy on certain items worked well? It'd avoid those arguements about Felstriker, but might make even more bitter arguements about the policy in general.

Feel free to offer opinions, I've never been on this side of a point system before and it seems a lot more trouble from over here.

Quineloe · 04-18-2005, 08:41 AM

I hate DKP systems that try to avoid pointhoarding.

Glayde · 04-18-2005, 09:19 AM

Moo.

I hate pointhoarders who hate DKP systems that try to avoid pointhoarding.

FuckYou · 04-18-2005, 09:34 AM

The EQ guild I co-ran was DKP and had a handful of people I viewed as point-hoarders. Over time I realized that the so called hoarders generally had worse overall gear than those who regularly ayed on upgrades to improve their char.

Malvesti · 04-18-2005, 09:55 AM

To defeat inflation and save effort of assigning item costs, I think the open auction system is best. Players will collectively, automatically, match the point influx to point expenditures. As administrator, your only headaches are assigning points to each encounter and tracking participation.

Normally, all items should be available to anyone who can and will use as an upgrade. But I have no problem with special items being reserved for certain classes, if you feel that's important. They should be the exception, though, or perceptions of favoritism will cost you, as well as all the research time for the administrator.

Mkopec1 · 04-18-2005, 09:55 AM

DKP is definitely the way to go. Or at least some variant of which spreads points based upon attendance.

For an example my guild still does the old "roll for it bs" and we killed Lucifron yesterday for the first time in MC and some uber epic plate pants dropped.

Well all the warriors attending rolled for it and some sap won which just joined the guild like a few days ago.

A total slap in the face to those warriors which tried MC for weeks now, attending every single raid thus far.

Mazuli · 04-18-2005, 10:01 AM

The DKP system promotes individual advancement, not guild advancement. The individuals only go on the raids so their character can be better. They don't give a shit about everyone else. They don't care if someone else who isn't able to attend as many raids will never have gear like theirs. Having a few well geared people while the rest of the guild wears shit gear won't help you progress. Boo hoo, so you attend more raids because you have no life. That doesn't mean you should screw over the guild by taking everything that those who work and have families and lives need as well.

FuckYou · 04-18-2005, 10:03 AM

in our experiences, auctions were horrible. they not only brought out the worst in people, but were an administrative nightmare.

all we did was assisng point costs to items and, roughly each expansion, depreciate the cost of older items.

when something drops, everyone ayed in secret to one officer. highest point holder won. the value of the raid was the total amount spent on items divided by the number of raiders. this ensured that, on shitty old raids or raids where nothing dropped, the point value reflected that.

for example:
bertox in cod
2 items drop and are bought for a total of 40 DKP
40 people present
40/40 = 1 DKP per attendee

bertox in time
3 items drop and are bought for a total of 180 DKP
40 people present
180/40 = 4.5 DKP per attendee

beepbeepbeep · 04-18-2005, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by FuckYou
in our experiences, auctions were horrible. they not only brought out the worst in people, but were an administrative nightmare.

all we did was assisng point costs to items and, roughly each expansion, depreciate the cost of older items.

when something drops, everyone ayed in secret to one officer. highest point holder won. the value of the raid was the total amount spent on items divided by the number of raiders. this ensured that, on shitty old raids or raids where nothing dropped, the point value reflected that.

for example:
bertox in cod
2 items drop and are bought for a total of 40 DKP
40 people present
40/40 = 1 DKP per attendee

bertox in time
3 items drop and are bought for a total of 180 DKP
40 people present
180/40 = 4.5 DKP per attendee

This is what we use. It helps combat inflation, since if item values are doubled a few months later, your distributed DKP is twice as much, and it decreases the value of "horded" points, relatively.

Mkopec1 · 04-18-2005, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mazuli
The DKP system promotes individual advancement, not guild advancement. The individuals only go on the raids so their character can be better. They don't give a shit about everyone else. They don't care if someone else who isn't able to attend as many raids will never have gear like theirs. Having a few well geared people while the rest of the guild wears shit gear won't help you progress. Boo hoo, so you attend more raids because you have no life. That doesn't mean you should screw over the guild by taking everything that those who work and have families and lives need as well.

There has to be a way to encourage attendance and reward those who stay commited to the guilds cause.

I just cnnot see some sap who never raids come to a raid and win loot over someone which has been commited all along. It ruins morale and makes the commited guild members say..."WTF am I diong this for?"

ashatumar · 04-18-2005, 10:13 AM

My problem is what to do with the folks that can't come due to limitations of 40 people?

I'm not asking for more than 40, 40 is way too many as is, but I have roughly 60 people that want to attend and rotating folks in and out would definitely move points in the wrong direction.

I'm thinking it might be prudent to begin a second raid party, and try to let the two make their own progress.

Nakilos · 04-18-2005, 10:17 AM

The obvious "flaw" to an auction system is people in each class set can get together and work the system, deciding amongst themselves who gets what in what order to minimalize point costs - won't work as well on non class specific items maybe, but anything class specific or obviously geared to certain classes (ie, daggers anyone can use but realistically only a rogue would get them). Besides that, people further down the line spend less points than the first if they don't do that, but I guess that isn't too bad if people are spending points at least. Problem I could see too is certain classes you only need so many of. I mean my guild runs a merit/officer decision system, and already classes decide amongst themselves who will ask for items in what order. While it prevents people complaining about the system, it is a workaround none the less.

DKP is fair for all intents and purposes, but does require a mature raider base. Unless you penalize people for playing shitty, you might have really high attendance, and lots of people watching Law and Order rather than paying attention to whats happening on the raid.

FuckYou · 04-18-2005, 10:19 AM

Quote:

My problem is what to do with the folks that can't come due to limitations of 40 people?

we had this issue in KT instances in EQ.

people who showed up ON TIME for the raid but could not get in due to size limits were given full credit for the raid.

beepbeepbeep · 04-18-2005, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by FuckYou
we had this issue in KT instances in EQ.

people who showed up ON TIME for the raid but could not get in due to size limits were given full credit for the raid.

We encountered this problem as well, however, we use a "standby" system in which the players need to have their character outside of the raid instance and ready to be subbed / summoned in should someone in the instance need to leave.

They can log out or play an alt or something, as long as we can have them ready to be in the instance within 3 minutes, they get credit.

Yermum Onceme · 04-18-2005, 10:27 AM

Some of the most active people in my eq guild were married with full time jobs. I don't understand why people with lives think that others with no lives should log on just to gear them up. If you don't play as much, you don't deserve as much loot.

If loot is that important to you, find more time to play the fucking game. Nobody else gives a shit about your daughter's ballet practice.

04-18-2005, 06:54 AM	#1 (permalink)
Aulirophile Ultima Ratio Regum Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: California Posts: 1,581 -1 Internets	Guild Point Systems I recall FoH as being a merit/officer decision guild, but since just about anyone who would know about DKP systems frequents this board, I was hoping for some help. I'm starting a guild to try and do high end encounters and would like to institute a fair DKP system that doesn't take too much time to keep updated. I was wondering what variants people have personally used that worked for their guild and why? I want recent activity and high attendance to matter more then seniority to at least some degree. Has a class heirarchy on certain items worked well? It'd avoid those arguements about Felstriker, but might make even more bitter arguements about the policy in general. Feel free to offer opinions, I've never been on this side of a point system before and it seems a lot more trouble from over here. __________________ "Someday, after mastering the winds, the waves, the tides and gravity, we shall harness for God the energies of love, and then, for a second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire." ~Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

04-18-2005, 09:19 AM	#3 (permalink)
Glayde Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 13 +0 Internets	Moo. I hate pointhoarders who hate DKP systems that try to avoid pointhoarding. __________________ Glayde <Ascent> Shaman Thrall

04-18-2005, 09:55 AM	#6 (permalink)
Mkopec1 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Detroit Posts: 4,887	DKP is definitely the way to go. Or at least some variant of which spreads points based upon attendance. For an example my guild still does the old "roll for it bs" and we killed Lucifron yesterday for the first time in MC and some uber epic plate pants dropped. Well all the warriors attending rolled for it and some sap won which just joined the guild like a few days ago. A total slap in the face to those warriors which tried MC for weeks now, attending every single raid thus far. __________________ When I am working on a problem I never think about beauty. I only think about how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes	Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode	Rate This Thread:

04-18-2005, 08:41 AM	#2 (permalink)
Quineloe Hard Rock Hallelujah Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 6,786 -15 Internets	I hate DKP systems that try to avoid pointhoarding.

04-18-2005, 09:55 AM	#5 (permalink)
Malvesti Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 360 +0 Internets	To defeat inflation and save effort of assigning item costs, I think the open auction system is best. Players will collectively, automatically, match the point influx to point expenditures. As administrator, your only headaches are assigning points to each encounter and tracking participation. Normally, all items should be available to anyone who can and will use as an upgrade. But I have no problem with special items being reserved for certain classes, if you feel that's important. They should be the exception, though, or perceptions of favoritism will cost you, as well as all the research time for the administrator.

04-18-2005, 10:01 AM	#7 (permalink)
Mazuli Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 644 +0 Internets	The DKP system promotes individual advancement, not guild advancement. The individuals only go on the raids so their character can be better. They don't give a shit about everyone else. They don't care if someone else who isn't able to attend as many raids will never have gear like theirs. Having a few well geared people while the rest of the guild wears shit gear won't help you progress. Boo hoo, so you attend more raids because you have no life. That doesn't mean you should screw over the guild by taking everything that those who work and have families and lives need as well.

04-18-2005, 10:13 AM	#11 (permalink)
ashatumar R gis er d Us r Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 609 -1 Internets	My problem is what to do with the folks that can't come due to limitations of 40 people? I'm not asking for more than 40, 40 is way too many as is, but I have roughly 60 people that want to attend and rotating folks in and out would definitely move points in the wrong direction. I'm thinking it might be prudent to begin a second raid party, and try to let the two make their own progress.

04-18-2005, 10:17 AM	#12 (permalink)
Nakilos Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,520 +1 Internets	The obvious "flaw" to an auction system is people in each class set can get together and work the system, deciding amongst themselves who gets what in what order to minimalize point costs - won't work as well on non class specific items maybe, but anything class specific or obviously geared to certain classes (ie, daggers anyone can use but realistically only a rogue would get them). Besides that, people further down the line spend less points than the first if they don't do that, but I guess that isn't too bad if people are spending points at least. Problem I could see too is certain classes you only need so many of. I mean my guild runs a merit/officer decision system, and already classes decide amongst themselves who will ask for items in what order. While it prevents people complaining about the system, it is a workaround none the less. DKP is fair for all intents and purposes, but does require a mature raider base. Unless you penalize people for playing shitty, you might have really high attendance, and lots of people watching Law and Order rather than paying attention to whats happening on the raid.

04-18-2005, 10:27 AM	#15 (permalink)
Yermum Onceme Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: PA Posts: 1,523 +0 Internets	Some of the most active people in my eq guild were married with full time jobs. I don't understand why people with lives think that others with no lives should log on just to gear them up. If you don't play as much, you don't deserve as much loot. If loot is that important to you, find more time to play the fucking game. Nobody else gives a shit about your daughter's ballet practice.