Guild Point Systems

[FuckYou]

I think there were a total of 28 upgrades to my equipment that dropped that the guild let rot in the first 2 months I raided with them, some of them VERY siginificant upgrades. I simply never had the DKP to buy them.

This made me, a person who normally doesnt give a shit about loot, quite resentfull towards the guild. They would rather have stuff rot than upgrade their guldie so that they will be more useful to the guild. It just made me *feel* bad.

I totally 'get' the statement about having to let stuff rot in order to make sure the DKP system retains true value and meaningfullness, but at the same time, I know how that situation made me feel.

this is a flawed DKP system. nothing should ever rot if someone wants it. they just must be willing to pay the established cost for it.

we allowed people to go as negative as they wanted in points. if you were the only aye and wanted it, grats you, regardless of how many points you had.

[Duppin]

Originally posted by FuckYou
we allowed people to go as negative as they wanted in points. if you were the only aye and wanted it, grats you, regardless of how many points you had.

Not trying to flame, but if you did it this way, what was the point of keeping track of points at all?

I wish my bank worked that way

[Elgonn]

There is actually a very easy method to prevent DKP Hoarding. I've used it successfully quite a few times.

In addition to the standard setting up of items values that needs to be done in virtually any DKP system you also define Tiers or sequences of items. Certain tiers can have more than one similar item or even have "blank" tiers that simply equate to cost.

Lame and barely viable example:
Illusionary Rod
Staff of Jorden
Guiding Staff of Wisdom
Trindlehaven Staff
Amberseal Keeper

Now the reason most people hate point hoarders is because they can use their crap gear to tough it out until they get some Lord Kazzak drop.

To prevent point hoarding you require that people spend enough points to move through the entire tier. Paying a total DKP equal to the highest bids on any previous item in addition to the 'price' of the current one. Then instead in an auction they have artificially less points to spend or when the person with the highest DKP is awarded the item you calculated the "highest" based upon who would be left with the most after a purchase rather than when they are bidding.

[Note: You can also forbid skipping tiers entirely.]

I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this method. It works well at keeping people upgrading along the way and even encourages people to "back flag/item".

[The Bog]

What about people joining who had gear from a higher "tier," would they have to back-spend to even reach a tier that would be an upgrade, wasting gear from those who actually needed it?

EDIT: Negative DKP systems DO NOT WORK if you don't have a way of recovering in some case. If (for example) you have an item that is going to rot that costs 150dkp to get, and the maximum you can make a week is about 30-50 dkp (with you being at all the raids - ALL OF THEM WITHOUT FAIL) that just doesn't work. I know this from experience.

If an item is rotting, you keep reducing the dkp cost until someone wants it. Takes time? So it does, but it means that nobody ends up watching gear that would upgrade them rot because they'd never get any loot again without a perfect record.

Yes, I was working on an imperfect DKP system.

[Iannis]

The real problem with open-auction DPK is that it encourages severe guild drama, as well as the time constraint issues. I hope you guys don't run into that mess... I gotta guess you're gonna.

The upside is that it does make a member feel more a part of the guild and makes a raid feel more of a raid, I think, than a silent bidding system.

Depends on how vocal your lootwhores are, I guess.

I'd go with FU's basics, if I were gonna implement a fresh raiding guild. He's also right, it's pretty much impossible to be impartial when it comes to loot. Very often if your guild is worth a shit, there are going to be multiple people that deserve whatever item it is that they're all hot because it dropped.

[The Bog]

Time to talk alternatives - the fabled loot council environment.

Not to felate the Foghorn too much, one of the most successful loot systems I've seen was Avarice's. A loot council type thing can really, really work if you find the most stoney-faced, cold-hearted individual to handle it - not saying that Fog is the spawn of Satan - but he crushes drama with his iron fist of doom.

That works. You can't have someone who will crumble when a clique of people decides that Jimmy McAsswipe is deserving the loot he didn't raid for. You want someone who will tell the truth and make them shut up.

Another good example of this was Karadin's Noble Blade, back on the Rathe. One man and his loot decisions. I can't guarantee there was NO drama, but Karadin was a balanced, verbose character. He wasn't cruel, he just said "this is final. No dice" to those who argued against things. Cold, calm, composed. No room for argument.

That's how a loot council environment has to start. Then comes nepotism.

I won't name the guild, but I've seen some pretty fucking despicable examples of this. Families quite obvious manipulating the guild system to their advantage, awarding loot to family members who had just (as in literally 10 minutes prior) joined the guild over those who desperately needed the loot and had raided constantly.

In general, huge loot councils don't work. Make two, AT MOST THREE people. Anymore and it can be corrupted. Families are generally not a good idea - two brothers, maybe, a husband and wife, yes. A mother, father, and their sons? No. No no no. Do not join guilds who do that, as they will fuck you over.

Well that was rantastic.

[Elgonn]

Originally posted by The Bog
What about people joining who had gear from a higher "tier," would they have to back-spend to even reach a tier that would be an upgrade, wasting gear from those who actually needed it?

If you have any part of a tier you are considered to have everything beneath it.