PVP Rewards.

[Quineloe]

Originally posted by Sodami
As people have said, when there is no hard cap on pvping, why stay lvl 20?

trivial wins ?

[Lord Thanos]

Ah, as if I needed further proof that I fucked up by going 2h sword over 2h axe like everyone else has

Well, guess I'll have to go join the rest of the warrior lemings and spec 2h axe for some PvP goodness


Maybe they should make 2h swords proc more often, love my arcanite champion with crusader enchant, it just doesn't proc enough to matter in PvP cause fights are so short...

[Lenaldo]

Originally posted by Metranon
the reality is that most of the guilds with top skilled players on PvP servers (gear wise, PvP reputation) are also doing MC, onyxia etc raids, not just random PK'ing all day and raiding towns.

i think this will still be the case after the honor system is released: the best PvP players will mix and match raid gear and Honor rewards to get the most effective matchup.

And how can you say this is really unfair. If player A, at the end of a day, has 100 honorable kills, and player B has 100 honorable kills AND managed to squeeze a full clear of MC into that day, shouldn't player B have better gear for PvP as a result?

the problem is that the honor gear will have to get upgrades along with raid gear. Otherwise the honor reward gear will all quickly lose desirability for the top-end player. I don't see how this can be implemented in the current system, there will eventually have to be some form of reward above the rank 14 weapons, maybe requiring some kind of battlegrounds accomplishment to unlock or the completion of a world event like the opening of the dark portal.

I would say this is a pretty damn large assumption. i would say the reality is on pvp servers most of the guilds doing MC/onxyia/etc are ganking zergs who are gonna run around zergin every fight they have to in pvp. At least on my server(arthas) the alliance AND horde gulds that "pvp" all the time are terrible. This is especially true for the guilds doing mc raids. All they do is sit in zones and gank people leveling until a force shows up to battle them. They lose, and call in more guildies to overrun their opponents with numbers. Its lame and defintely is not the definition of skilled pvpers.

Killing an NPC is a lot easier than killing players. The rewards of pvping should be on par with the rewards of killing a computer-controlled mob.

i also dont think anyone is arguing that if player a and player b both have the same ammt of kills and player b has done an MC run player b doesnt deserve a better reward. The problem is when player A has killed 100 people in a day and player b has done mc; whcih one deserves the better reward? Can we really dictate whcih is harder to do? Sure... MC may be hard the first few times you do it, but after you have mastered an instance/boss it is just repetition where as pvp is always varaible. You don't know if your kill is gonna be easy or hard.

[Kaxmax]

Thanos, check out the new 2h sword from MC posted in Screenshots. Should give sword spec warriors something to be happy about.

[Mkopec1]

Originally posted by Lenaldo
I would say this is a pretty damn large assumption.

I know definitely on my server both sides have hardcore PvP guilds and they are basically doing PvE shit right now, like MC and other shit.

In fact I attended one outside dragon raid where a huge alliance guild, the biggest on our server showed up and brought 80 people. One raid to PvP and the other to do the dragon.

We had 2 mediocre Horde guilds there and we got spanked by this guild, I forget the name. But it was a sight to behold. They were totally coordinated in their efforts. Like I said one raid of 40 to do the dragon and the other 40 to spank horde ass when they arrived.

Pretty dammn impressive too. They had all their priests surrounded by stealthed rogues and they sent waves of warriors first at us, followed by a wave of AoE mages. They fucked us up pretty good. And still got the dragon kill. definitely coordinated and definitely not noobs. It looked like a fucking military effort. I got hard seeing that guild in action.

So I wouldnt say by a blanket statement that all PvP guilds on PvP servers suck.

In fact we have about 35 Lv60's in our guild, Eminent, and we just took down Lucifron this weekend. Definitely no accomplishment as some of the PvE server's guilds. But an accomplishment for us, nonetheless.

[Lenaldo]

I am not arguing that there arnt pvp guilds doing pve shit that arnt good... i was actually arguing quite the contrary. What he seemed to assume was that every top-tier pve guild on a pvp server is going to kick ass in pvp too. Sure, there will be a few guilds that do fine, but it is just as likely that a few of those guilds will be utterly terrible.


Its retarded to think that just because a guild can raid MC they are going to be good at pvp. I would say a guild that is good at pvp, with the right numbers, could probably easily raid MC. Lets face it, it takes a lot more organization to kill a thinking opponent than it does to kill a stagnent mob that has a limited amount of reactions.


basically. if A = pvp guild and B = pve guild... i would say that A being able to accel at pve stuff is more likely than B being able to accel at pvp shit. Of course there are instances of both where this is not true.


The problem with the current implementation of pvp rewards is that guilds who would rather PVP then pve are going to be hindered by receiving shittier gear for arguably the same ammt of effort. Why should i receive anything less for pvping 8 hrs a day 7 days a week than you should get for raiding mc the same ammt of time? Hell, one could even argue that pvping should get BETTER gear because it is MORE difficult since you have to not only kill the opposing faction but compete against your fellow faction-members.

[Fris_Leafshadow]

I don't see any resists on the pvp armor. Anyone have screen shots of someone wearing 3 or more pieces? I hope there's bonuses that give resists. Considering this is pvp rewards, that's pretty gimb.



Also, seems Bliz realized that STA is the most important stat for every class at 60, that seems to be the biggest # stat on every outfit.

[Mkopec1]

Originally posted by Lenaldo

The problem with the current implementation of pvp rewards is that guilds who would rather PVP then pve are going to be hindered by receiving shittier gear for arguably the same ammt of effort. Why should i receive anything less for pvping 8 hrs a day 7 days a week than you should get for raiding mc the same ammt of time? Hell, one could even argue that pvping should get BETTER gear because it is MORE difficult since you have to not only kill the opposing faction but compete against your fellow faction-members.

I agree, and I will add that this grinding to keep your gear is retarded also. Its like telling PvE guilds, oh btw, if you wanna keep your MC shit and wear it, you have to clear the instance twice a week.

[Tuco]

Guilds that are good at PVE are good at PVE. Guilds that are good at PVP are good at PVP. They can be good at both as well.

Both facets of gaming take practice, leadership and coordination.

[Lenaldo]

Originally posted by Tuco
Guilds that are good at PVE are good at PVE. Guilds that are good at PVP are good at PVP. They can be good at both as well.

Both facets of gaming take practice, leadership and coordination.

Tuco, i completely agree. however, pve is only difficult the first few times you do an encounter. After you have mastered the encounter it is the same damn tactic over and over again. Pvp takes a long time to get strats down as well.... but the challenge here is no 2 fights are ever the same.

I just think someone who constantly fights variable fights should receive equal if not BETTER gear than someone who farms the same mob over and over again.

[Tuco]

Yeah.

Enable the player to do what he finds most fun for extended periods of times, and then reward him for it after making it challenging.

MC blows, it's like getting kicked in the nuts. PVP rewards or no, I will be fighting horde everytime I log in, that is, if they stand up and fight instead of hiding in their instances.

My hope is that their desire for some arbitrary contribution points will lead them into the light of day where me and my mates will strike.

[FoghornDeadhorn]

On the 'equal if not better' because humans are so much more unpredictable and therefore harder. You know this isn't true. More exciting? Sure. Harder? It varies, and if you're good, guess how much varying it does? Oh wait, you don't have to guess, you know full well: most people you're going after are going to be varying on the 'easy' end of the scale, and you know it.

Once again, PvP rewards should be great for PvP and OK for PvE, and vice versa. I don't know what's so hard about this. They are two different things.

[Fammaden]

Originally posted by Mkopec1
I agree, and I will add that this grinding to keep your gear is retarded also. Its like telling PvE guilds, oh btw, if you wanna keep your MC shit and wear it, you have to clear the instance twice a week.

PvE guilds clear every encounter that they can every week as soon as it is spawned/reset. People can not just join a MC guild, walk in one week and get decked out in a full suit and weapon then never go back again. You have to do those encounters as part of a coordinated effort and you will be expected to keep returning to help others get their drops as well. Not to mention the fact that you do battle with rotting gear and the random number generator every time you go even after you stop wiping and put the encounters on farm status. The whole thing strikes most people as an incredibly boring and tedious grind that never ends, and in many ways they are correct.

I thought most people did PvP by choice and because they find it to be more fun and a greater challenge? I could be a real dick and say that you should want to PvP even for no rewards because it is what you supposedly like to do. I realize that would be shortsighted and naive. But what types of rewards would make you happy? In the proposed "grind free" system, one person could find an exploit or simply set aside a couple weeks of meth binging to go out and ensure his status as PvP general. He could then go buy his rank 14 armor and effectively retire or do whatever the hell else he wanted without ever contributing to his server and faction's PvP atmosphere again, yet still retaining the rewards for being a "general". Sounds about as much like a slap in the face as giving a full set of MC gear to a recruit over his first two weeks only to watch him quit the guild and go hang out in Org/SW looking cool while you go back to nightly farming sessions. Of course in this scenario, that guy will not be likely to ever get a guild invite from a respectable raiding unit again on that server so there is some justice. In the case of General Tso the PvP Chicken Dish, he can simply wait until the rumor mill suggests that rank 15 rewards will be in with a patch in a week or two. At that time he can don his super rewards outfit that a small number of other people have managed to obtain and go repeat the original process until he can buy his permanent set of rank 15 gear that no one can take away from him no matter how little he decides to PvP afterwards. Meanwhile you cant disappear from your PvE guild today after collecting 5-10 MC/Onyx/Az/Kaz loots and plan to show back up the day Blackwing Lair goes live and type: "/gu Hey guys! I'm back what time is the raid? Daddy needs a new sword!" Well you could try. I would like to see it myself just for personal amusement, but I would still consider it inadvisable.

[Tuco]

Once again, PvP rewards should be great for PvP and OK for PvE, and vice versa. I don't know what's so hard about this. They are two different things.

Question being how? Blizzard has given us their answer and it's not too bad. Casters need STA, Rogues and hunters want crit, agi and atk, warriors want str, crit and atk and paladins need int/str/sta.

Resists(fire mostly) are good because of their mitigating effects, but they would seriously drown out mage abilities if they had a lot of resists.

All classes would want less time/cost on their abilities that effect PVP, for example hamstring.

What PVP builds don't need is casters with lots of SPI, warriors with lots of STA, etc etc.

I'm hoping they'll tune the PVP rewards to be better than UBRS level and comparable to MC level for PVP.

[Tuco]

Originally posted by Fammaden
Imaginary Scenario.

They should have the ranking system for PVP, and all of its requirements to keep pvping, but I don't understand the reasoning behind people losing equipment when they lose their rank. I mean, the equipment, while superior, isn't 'that' great. It's just superior, it doesn't turn anyone into Superman.