PVP Rewards.

[Soygen]

Its just another piece of the puzzle man, just like what class you are and what class you attack, who gets the jump on the other, what lev, what skill level. gear is in there but its just a piece of the puzzle, not a guaranteed win.

There is too many variables to just say , yep, a twinked character will defeat an untwinked one. I call that bullshit.

I absolutely agree that it depends on what class you are fighting(I hate to even compare 1 vs 1 in WoW, because it's not how PVP should even be dicussed/balanced) and I totally agree that it's not a garaunteed win. I, however, disagree that the power gain is negligible in WOW twinking.

Bog makes an excellent point about plowing through instances(Deadmines, Wailing Caverns, Gnomeregan, Blackfathom Depths - I could solo all of them in beta with my rogue).

[Metranon]

Who would be stupid enough to spend 100G to twink a low level character, when anyone with half a brain can grind out 5 or more levels worth of experience soloing below level 30.

Its frankl,y a huge waste of money, because your level will outstrip your gear so fast you'll be constantly having to buy new sets of twink gear to keep up.

For example: lets say i bought my level 25 warrior a blue 2 hander, lets say its 33 DPS. Lets say I spent 15G on the weapon. At level 30, i can easily go and do the whirlwind weapon quest and get a much better weapon than the one i wasted 15G on.

until you get 50+, theres very few items worth spending a signifigant amount of money on.

[Sodami]

Originally posted by The Bog
Not true.
Get a level 50/60 mate to walk you through wailing caverns at 20. Every quest and every mob can be steamrolled with next to no effort. That's twinking.

But in EQ you could do that all with your twink.

I never said there was no twinking, it is just not as pronounced as in EQ.

[Soygen]

how can you even compare an unrestricted game like EQ against a LV resricted game like WoW?

You seem to be the only one mentioning EQ(in the last 10 or so posts at least. The point is that a twinked character is quite a bit more powerful than a normally played quest/ah equipped character of the same level. Sure, it's not nearly as drastic as EQ. It it a bit more than a marginal difference, in my experience.

[Bizanich]

Originally posted by The Bog
They're not hard to get. That's the polar opposite of what everyone's saying.

What they're saying is "PVP rewards are sub-par for the effort, but are in the right direction, and it sucks that you have to keep a constant PVP slew to keep wearing the armour that you earned."

I think.

Basically, yeah.

I think the crux of it is that the medium to small PvP guilds don't want to have to grow to a certain size to be able to reliably take down Onyxia and Molten Core. They want an alternative to getting gear and they thought PvP would be that alternative.

The gear is good....but if PvE keeps getting upgraded + further loot upgrades in future tiers....

It's depressing.

[Metranon]

the reality is that most of the guilds with top skilled players on PvP servers (gear wise, PvP reputation) are also doing MC, onyxia etc raids, not just random PK'ing all day and raiding towns.

i think this will still be the case after the honor system is released: the best PvP players will mix and match raid gear and Honor rewards to get the most effective matchup.

And how can you say this is really unfair. If player A, at the end of a day, has 100 honorable kills, and player B has 100 honorable kills AND managed to squeeze a full clear of MC into that day, shouldn't player B have better gear for PvP as a result?

the problem is that the honor gear will have to get upgrades along with raid gear. Otherwise the honor reward gear will all quickly lose desirability for the top-end player. I don't see how this can be implemented in the current system, there will eventually have to be some form of reward above the rank 14 weapons, maybe requiring some kind of battlegrounds accomplishment to unlock or the completion of a world event like the opening of the dark portal.

[The Bog]

Originally posted by Mkopec1
In EQ you could have a LV10 dude with a fungi, some 25%+ haste sash,some 20/10 weapons, other uber items, chewing through content untill lv50 with no probems.

In wow you can take that WC equipped dude and he is just marginaly better equipped than anyone else. And definitely not blowing through content like the dude from EQ. Gear is all level restricted, how can you even compare an unrestricted game like EQ against a LV resricted game like WoW?

Oh really.

You can't see the sizeable difference between a level 23 rogue with normal green/white gear that he's just picked up, and my level 23 rogue, resplendent with anything that SFK and WC stuff?

You're not quite as stupidly invincible, and the distance is there in that you have to keep upgrading it, so I see the difference, but it's still twinking.

I used to really, really despise fungi monks who got to 60 the easy way, after struggling my ass there painfully without one. Then I got one and I became a hypocrite. Shucks.

[Mkopec1]

My whole point was that twinking in this game is rather bleak. And like someone pointed out, its totally useless to spend uber money or even waste time getting this twink gear at lv20, 30...because you outlevel it so fast.

Is your character going to be better? Sure, if he wasnt gear would not mean shit in this game but it does, but only up to a point.

I leveled 2 characters now on Skullcrusher, a PvP server. My latest incarnation is a 48 shaman. And honestly I didnt start to hunt for gear untill I could go to Scartlet Monastary. And now I have gear from there, Zul'farak and Mauradon.

But before this, I mostly used quest rewards, spent some coin in the AH to buy a weapon or two. The only real twinking I did was setting myself up with some bags from my other character. In fact untill SM, I was wearing Lv26ish leather in some slots.

/shrug I did fine in PvP, in fact my record is quite good against like leveled opponents. The only ones I had trouble with was Rogues which consistantly hand me my ass. Usually when Im on a mob, sneaking up and unloading their barrage of quick damage followed by a stun or two. But Im betting im not the only shaman with rogue problems.

[Itzena]

We're talking about PK twinks, though - you know, the ones that'll stay at L20 or so and gank people all the time.

[beepbeepbeep]

Originally posted by Itzena
We're talking about PK twinks, though - you know, the ones that'll stay at L20 or so and gank people all the time.

Why would this be an issue?

[Tuco]

Holy shit you guys are talking about twinking and how people will make twinks to farm low level people?

Are you that disconnected with reality?

For my blanket statement before I go to bed, I think I speak for the hardcore PVPers everywhere when I say, "Give us a way to PVP and get rewarded for it, so we don't have to go be bored and annoyed in PVE carebear bullshit instances for hours at a time."

[Quineloe]

Originally posted by Mkopec1
If you dont suck at PvP then you wont be attacking shit you cannot kill. You will be going after targets that you can kill 80-90% of the time regardless of gear, that is wile soloing.

Besides anybody can do 3-5 runs through WC and be well equipped at Lv20. Same like the guy dropping 100G to twink out.

/shrug

I still dont see the huge advantage you guys are pointing out.

most of the DM loot is ~level 12-15 green. You walk away with a blue level 17 item. That's totally different to a level 25 completly decked out in green level 25 gear with a level 25 blue weapon.

[Metranon]

guess what: the level 25 in full greens with a blue weapon will still get rolled hard in PvP bya a mage 5 levels higher than him. I can level up a mage to level 30 in about 3 RL days, probably less if i tried hard

not to mention they will get killed in 2-3 hits by a level 60 roving PvP'er, of which there are plenty roaming around on most servers

people PK'ing with twinked low level characters is a non issue, grow a pair and level up.

[Itzena]

Originally posted by Tuco
Holy shit you guys are talking about twinking and how people will make twinks to farm low level people?

Are you that disconnected with reality?

Bog asked why there were no L10-20 pvp rewards, I said that encouraging low-level PK twinks was a bad thing, mainly because at L20 or so most people are still wearing utter crap for gear (especially because the incentive to grind the couple of instances available for gear is low due to the fact that said L20 will be L30 not long afterwards).

Do try and keep up.

[Sodami]

Originally posted by Itzena
We're talking about PK twinks, though - you know, the ones that'll stay at L20 or so and gank people all the time.

As people have said, when there is no hard cap on pvping, why stay lvl 20?