Initial end-game content - EQ vs WoW

[Mkopec1]

Originally posted by kudos
I was on a pvp server and the only conflict I saw was the same raid on southshore every night. woohoo that doesnt get old.

On my server where the ever increasing numbers of 60 peeps are getting bored out of their skulls, are resorting to ping pong raids of 40+ peeps in Orgrimmar or Ironforge. Lagging the entire server into submission. Ruining gameplay for the other 2000 folks trying to do shit.

I blame Blizzard.

[Kreugen]

I find it hugely ironic that they would state that "the game really begins at level 60" and then allow such a raid bug to exist for months. Why don't they grab every damn programmer they have, sit them in a room, and have them fix this one bug that is FUCKING thousands of players right now?

It just makes no goddamn sense.

[Mkopec1]

Originally posted by Kreugen
I find it hugely ironic that they would state that "the game really begins at level 60" and then allow such a raid bug to exist for months. Why don't they grab every damn programmer they have, sit them in a room, and have them fix this one bug that is FUCKING thousands of players right now?

It just makes no goddamn sense.

I think that they just have no fucking clue as to whats causing it.

Or they just dont see this as a huge issue right now. /boggle

[Vaclav]

Originally posted by Kreugen
I find it hugely ironic that they would state that "the game really begins at level 60" and then allow such a raid bug to exist for months. Why don't they grab every damn programmer they have, sit them in a room, and have them fix this one bug that is FUCKING thousands of players right now?

It just makes no goddamn sense.

My bet is they want to get the population numbers down to their initial projections.

[Duppin]

Originally posted by Kreugen
I find it hugely ironic that they would state that "the game really begins at level 60" and then allow such a raid bug to exist for months. Why don't they grab every damn programmer they have, sit them in a room, and have them fix this one bug that is FUCKING thousands of players right now?

It just makes no goddamn sense.

I personally think they're just being short-sighted, thinking to themselves "but this doesn't affect little Jimmy the level 30 paladin!" and then looking at the fact that little Jimmy represents the majority of their playerbase.

I don't think Blizzard really realizes how much the top-end players of any MMORPG really drive the rest of the game, and that little Jimmy will be running into this bug before long because once the fast leveling curve gets him to 60, he won't have anything else to do.

[Dynalisia]

They probably see the raid lockout bug as some divine gift that provides at least some cockblockage against the hordes of players quickly advancing upon their minimal endgame, while the one whole dungeon worth of new content that they're preparing passes through their 8th cycle of quality assurance.

"AND MAKE SURE THE GRASS WAVES FROM EAST TO WEST THIS TIME BOB!"

[Zarcath]

Well if you dont see by now that this game does not cater to the 50+ hour a week peeps I think you need to slap yourself on the forehead. Sorry, this is not EQ 2.0. Its pretty fucking evident that Blizzard tried EVERYTHING not to become the agonizing life drain that EQ became.

The retarded thing is that the highest raid content a casual guild will see is UBRS. It would take months for a casual player before they even saw Onyxia/MC. Even UBRS is like solo mentality. You literally go from solo content to full blown raiding, how is a casual guild supposed to make the transition? Imagine going straight from PoFear to Sleepers/Ssra.

[ChewieTobbacca]

I'm sorry but drama in PvP is fucking bullshit. There is no fucking drama.

You said it yourself, theres tons of BORED level 60s. Hmm, i wonder why there bored. PvP gets fucking boring pretty fast as well, when its always the same people.

Here's teh thing, there is no fuckign drama when you cannot taunt/talk/identify your opponents. I saw more fun and drama in teh grief fest of Sullon Zek simply because you could identify opponent players, talk to them, and fight en masse.

Unless you're talking about drama inside the team, which is usually just plain annoying, there isn't much drama or fun to PvP at all.

[Samus Aran]

Originally posted by Kodylan
The only bug that plagues raiding now is the lockout bug...hopefully that'll be fixed soon

Maybe I'm smoking crack but I vaguely recall Kreugen saying he reported that shit almost a year ago.

Originally posted by Lenaldo
Imagine having a group to kill the dragon and then a PVP group to protect the raid incase shit hits the fan. Hell, you could even have guilds that act as guardians.

....

That is one of the most retarded ideas offered in any thread about WoW.

Originally posted by Dynalisia
They probably see the raid lockout bug as some divine gift that provides at least some cockblockage against the hordes of players quickly advancing upon their minimal endgame, while the one whole dungeon worth of new content that they're preparing passes through their 8th cycle of quality assurance.

"AND MAKE SURE THE GRASS WAVES FROM EAST TO WEST THIS TIME BOB!"

Someone give this person a medal.

[Charron]

Originally posted by Zarcath
Today we had 30 people on, some without keys, some who weren't tied to our MC instance, the last three days we haven't been able to do anything except farm UBRS for blood.

So people get bored of keying and stop playing, then we don't have enough for Onyxia on, so we need to recruit more people and get them keyed, which makes even more people bored and now we have a never ending cycle of keying people for Onyxia.

This is exactly what is happening in my guild. And it is also exactly what is happening in 2 other bigger guilds on our server.

We used to have 50 people on pretty much every night. Tonight we had a clear Onyxia instance and we had 25 people show up and we have 55 keyed people of which about 50 still sorta play.

[frott]

Originally posted by kudos
So you want retards who only devote 3 nights a week(or whenever instances reset) to accomplish the same as those who can devote more. I see. I'm sorry if I do not agree with the fact people who dont play as much should get the same reward.

I don't see where you're coming to that conclusion.

In WoW it's all about the zany drop rates. Play more = get more drops. The quality is random, so, yes, you could ostensibly get a "good clear" on a dungeon and get half dozen quality loots, or 15 shitty clears, and get mostly rot.

This leaves the problem being shitball droprates coupled with shitball instance respawns. Right now, the people who "can play more" can ostensibly farm more and saturate faster. The issue is that shit's so stagnant that all the "lesser" players have plenty of time to equal the people who farmed-out instances over a month ago.

[frott]

Originally posted by Zarcath
The retarded thing is that the highest raid content a casual guild will see is UBRS. It would take months for a casual player before they even saw Onyxia/MC. Even UBRS is like solo mentality. You literally go from solo content to full blown raiding, how is a casual guild supposed to make the transition? Imagine going straight from PoFear to Sleepers/Ssra.

It's not so black and white. Are we talking about casual as in plays every night a few hours? Casual as in wasn't a hard core EQer but hard core in other games that didn't have such vigorous endgame raiding?

You're giving people zero credit. Even retarded mouth-breathers can figure out "hey, there is onyxia quest!" and "hey, what's molten core all about?"

There are fucking FEW dungeons, which you are lead to by a quest system that cradles your eBalls so they don't chafe.

This "casual" playerbase is just a phantom. Define them better, because the casual playerbase that you're referring to is, I'd say, rather minimal on each server.

Even by virtue of having ANY brained people on a server, anyone who can hit level 60 has at least a shot at being a part of end-game content. And in case you weren't keeping track, I think a perpetually drinking bird could hit 60 quickly, then farm gold for RANG RANG and grief you with his fagadin!

[Zarcath]

Well, I'd define WoW casual as any guild that doesn't have an UBRS key.

I'm not saying casual people are morons who will never FIND MC/Onyxia. I'm sure they're aware they exists. But as mentioned, 1-59 is pretty much like solo play or 5-man instances, then you go up to 10-12 man UBRS, and then you make a flying leap to 40 man raids.

I am saying, that eventually, even the slowest leveling, most retarded person in the game, is going to get into UBRS, and that will pretty much be the extent of their playing, because there's just no transition from UBRS to Onyxia/MC raid mentality. We're all MMO veterans and we're taking it for granted. I've had to recruit complete MMO newbies who have absolutely no concept of how end-game raiding works and we've had to train them out of their 1-59 soloing ways (like making them respec out of solo to raid build). These guys are lucky, because they have MMO veterans training them, holding their hand and getting them through.

What happens when massive wave of idiots washes up on shore? They won't know what the hell they're doing, how are they going to learn? Running UBRS 40x times doesn't teach you anything except extreme patience. That's what I mean when I say WoW raids force you onto a "casual" time table but requires "hardcore" mentality.

Look at all of the threads here from MMO veterans who are bending their minds left and right trying not to snap under these whacky concepts - and we're the VETERANS.

[Velael]

The drama in this game is fucking PvP. Its when you go to do you 54th run at UBRS and get stood up by the opposing faction.

And then you run back to your corpse and hit "accept" and jump into the instance.

You can't stop another guilds raids, you can't kill their boss target, and you can't even keep them from zoning from one spot to the other.

The pvp system in this game for guild v. guild blows. PVE goals always provided the "reward" for EQ pvp. That is totally lacking in WoW. While the PVP engine is better, there is nothing to fight for and that is starting to really bite.

[Lin]

Originally posted by Kreugen
I find it hugely ironic that they would state that "the game really begins at level 60" and then allow such a raid bug to exist for months. Why don't they grab every damn programmer they have, sit them in a room, and have them fix this one bug that is FUCKING thousands of players right now?

It just makes no goddamn sense.

The parallels to EQ PoP instance and raid bugs are sad. Maybe they stole SOE's code? The real question though is: "How can they not care enough about making a quality product that the bug exists in the first place?" Does WoW have that wonderful group bug EQ had from day 1 to end of Luclin where sometimes, for no apparant reason, you just couldn't get invited to any party, unless you logged?

Every day reading game boards I'm happier I never bought WoW, and every day more people are returning to our FFXI Linkshell. Maybe it takes programmers that would commit seppuku, if they fucked up as badly as the Blizzard or SOE fucknuts, to make a game that isn't riddled with bugs.