what really made eq fun: grief.

[Clowns]

Some of the most fun I've had was when two or more guilds were in Hate or Fear pulling from each side. Then the Maestro, or CZ, would get aggroed and screw everything up for all guilds involved. Then the trash talking in shout would ensue. I hated it then, but I kinda wish for those days again.

[Wrathcaster]

I think it all comes down to this: everyone's going to bitch about everything all the time. If there were no instances in WoW, people would bitch. There's no winning or making the perfect mmo, because the moment you do, people will bitch about it being perfect. The same people bitching about WoW instances and EQ2 whatever will be bitching about Vanguard in a couple years, or however long it takes to release. Generally, I think the mmo community is probably the most unsatisfied, bitchy, and aggrivated group of people ever to exist, and I must say, I am proud to count myself among their ranks, because damnit, being perfectly happy just sucks. Don't agree with me? How about you bitch about it a little bit. At the end of the day, we're all still going to be hunting pixels for fun.

[Tripamang]

So let me get this straight... people liked the griefing because it added to the game... that now that everything is instanced and people are one step behind it isn't as fun?

More or less from this I get the feeling that you can't wave your epeen around and feel as big anymore because the game is actually based on what you're capable of, not whether you got lucky with spawn.

Yes racing for mobs was exciting, but more often than not there was one winner and many losers, and the losers lost not based on ability but because it wasn't their guilds peak time of the day or because not everyone was logged on that 30 min window before people got there.

Not giving everyone their fair chance at doing the end game is a crock of shit. Racing mobs based on time zones and whether you got the time to blow camping a raid boss, waiting for it to spawn is not a fair chance at the end game.

[Kreugen]

I admit it, I hated the griefing. I actually logged off a couple of times in the very early days until I learned that they would happily do the exact same shit right back without a moments thought. The other guilds on veeshan were a hundred times the griefers that we ever were, especially among each other, and they never ever admitted it to themselves. I realized early on that it wasn't anyone's fault - it was simply the way the game was.

One thing I DO hate about the lack of competition, is the fact that we no longer have to be strict about raid times. As in, we don't fucking raid until 11pm my time, and I'm not getting three hours of sleep every night for a goddamn game anymore.

When I joined FoH it was more like 4pm, and earlier on patch days. It had to be that way. Eventually we were so far ahead we didn't have to worry about undergeared unprepared idiots wasting our time by showing up first and we were able to relax a bit. But nothing like this "schedule raid at employed east coast player's bed time, show up an hour late, spend 45 minutes dicking around before zoning in" bullshit. Yes, the lack of competing over zones means I am totally at the mercy of west coast scheduling, and I've missed weeks of raiding because of it.

[Tuco]

I threw 15 people into the lava at BRM yesterday.

Heh.

[Tripamang]

Originally posted by Tuco
I threw 15 people into the lava at BRM yesterday.

Heh.

Now theres community building! heh

[Digo]

I miss the days of ulthork hide tunic death loops and CoHing Kael farmers into Tormax's throne room.

[Chaotic]

Originally posted by Beauti
And yet everyone bashed me for hating on instances when I said this would happen that everyone would have the same exact cookie cutter loot because they can boringly farm the raid mobs since they have absolutely no competition or drive.

I've said the same thing since LDON in EQ. It needs to be done as the exception, not the rule, or you lose something. What that something is, is different for everyone. For some it's interpersonal griefing (Training) for others its group griefing (Cock blocking guild x from time access by keeping coirnav permakilled) maybe its legitimate competition, getting 2 plate bracers for your guild from PoF instead of them going to your rival guild. Knowing there is only 1 King tormax until he spawns again. Whatever it is, you lose something with instances, there is no arguing it. Some people would say the benefits make it worth it, I disagree and I have from the get go.

[taebin]

Originally posted by Kreugen
But nothing like this "schedule raid at employed east coast player's bed time, show up an hour late, spend 45 minutes dicking around before zoning in" bullshit. Yes, the lack of competing over zones means I am totally at the mercy of west coast scheduling...

Quoted for comedy factor and truth. Not being pressured by other guilds is really playing hell with the school and work schedule. We got done at 5am last night and I had a Psyc exam at 10am this morning. I don't care how much fun a game is, getting 4-5 hours of sleep a night fucking blows.

[Vorph]

Originally posted by findar
sure you may want to deny it, but nothing was more enjoyable then knowing that there was someone else you could fuck with/go head to head against. i hate instancing, i hate code that goes beyond good sense(npcs running back in "evade" mode), and i hate how like someone else put it so well "we are in our own little sandbox". i know no game will bring it back the way old EQ did, because it would be developer suicide... but tell me im not the only one who missed the fact that retards just being in my general vacinity played an impact on my game, and that i had to adapt because of it.

Yea, that pretty much sums up why I'll never play a MMO without instancing again. The shit you could get away with in EQ due to the code and the worthless customer service dept. was the worst part of the game.

At least WoW (and EQ2 for that matter) has the code to prevent the vast majority of it, even if their customer service makes SOE's look top notch by comparison.

[Thorbadin]

Well a somewhat cool raiding night in MC yesterday revived my desire to log in a bit (was already getting pretty low).

The comments about community hit the nail for me. I'm not one that spend hours sitting in orgrimmar where there is actually some chater going on.

But outside of guild chat it feels sooo empty, devoid of life.

You sometime see people on the zeppelin, maybe talk, most of the time nothing.

You wind ride to BRM afk surfing the web, get on horse, travel 2 empty zone. When you get to brd or spire, chances are no one is there. Because you basically have to catch a raid preparing at the exact same time you are too. You can't talk with alliance. Last time there was some pvp but who cares, also doing pvp in brm is completly retarded as the above poster mention.

The only person I know outside the guilds are the odd member I recruited to complete guild group. But since the rate of leveling is soo fast, I probably have made less then 20-30 instances run for all my pre-60 life, maybe getting to put on my friend list 5-10 people in it.

One possible exception to this would be the barren. Maybe because it's huge? Or maybe because when I was a noob the majority of the population was still in barren range?

We did brs and got a deathstriker then someone in our guild /yelled about us getting one, etc, then I rememberd in shock it's true! you can talk to people doing the instance if you want in /1 or yell. You can do it, but it seem that people just don't really do it.

Maybe the place is young, I don't know.

I know the name of 1 other semi high end guild on the server.

Anyway in short it feels so empty, it's like xping in the karanas at 2am but in wow it's all the time like that.

Thorb

[Chaotic]

Thorb summed up my primary gripe with WoW perfectly. I miss the interaction of PoE groups.

[Zippygoose]

I'd chat in general more if it wasn't full of people with names like "Magedude" talking in full caps about how they are organizing level 20+ horde raids omgz!

[aw3s0me]

Originally posted by Ham n Cheese

Challenge. Like I mentioned in the other thread, the only thing that's made me stop and think for half a minute was the Uldaman ending event. Besides that if I need to finish a quest and it's an elite mob +3> levels above me at the end of it all, I buy a heal potion or just use evasion. Hell you can even solo quests with good rewards that require you to enter an instance your level (mark of the chosen). And that's not just limited to rogues, anyone go engineering and make a cloaking device, you don't need it long. I know a lot of you are thinking I haven't seen any of the high end yet because I'm not 60. But, in EQ you didn't have to wait until 60 to be challenged, or to feel like you actually accomplished something. I could be on a Vox/Nagafen raid now in EQ or in a Plane (yes planes weren't added until later, but that was 7 or so years ago, no excuse for Blizzard to be at the same problem as Verant/SOE at that time). Even breaking the ghoul lord room initially felt like you could easily die any second. Let's not forget you can get 60 in 2-3 weeks if you wanted (not PLed~).
[/b]

i feel the same way ... long long time ago i loved it when there was an actual challange and a risk to everything ... it was backbreaking just to get any decent items (camping in lower guk with 100+ people just for a chance at rolling for a yak or smr, and yeah the ghoul lord was a bitch) and even with 100 people you would know most of them. fun times. heck i just remembered MM, that place scared the shit outta me and was full of trains.

or even the first plane runs when losing your corpse was actually possible ...

and you could actually feel the community, if it was in nfp/ec tunnel where the market usually is, or on the oasis docks, nro platform, etc. it was all lots of fun and jokes.

hopefully vanguard will pull through.

[kcxiv]

Best threads on our server board where about the 2 top guilds going at it head to head in ntov, kael, and ssra. The threads were just $$$. Was good damn reading. NOw the server boards are just boring as hell since instancing. While it might not be fun for the guild that loses the race, it was fun for the guild that won.

It used to be a rush when someone in guild said head to kael statue/KT/ both rzoths in ssra just spawned. There is none of that anymore.