PvP rewards vs. raid rewards...

[Samus Aran]

Someone in guildchat tonight mentioned that Blizzard has said that the best items in game will be from PvP (battlegrounds).

Firstly, anyone know if that is correct or if he was wrong.

Secondly, how powerful should the best PvP reward be compared to the best PvE item. I know most here will say that the PvP rewards shouldn't be anywhere near as good as PvE.

Discuss?

PS: I know this topic sucks, and isn't the most entertaining one.

[chackle]

Best? Haven't seen a blue say best anywhere on the wow boards. Noone knows how they'll compare, pure speculation.

[Phoenix]

I remember saying something similiar to best items will come from PvP.

Just gotta wait to battlegrounds/pvp rewards come out to find out if this is true.

[Metranon]

i think PvP rewards should be geared towards PvP, not just geared to make them the "best"

example of this would be maybe one of the high end alliance PvP rewards would be something like, "Avenging Cutlass of Admiral Proudmoore"

this cutlass might be a purple or above item, and be 10-20% behind the top end PvE rewards weapons in DPS. However, it should have an ability like, "Hordeslaying +30" which would add +30 dps whenever attacking a member of the horde faction, making it clearly way above the best PvE rewards when it came to PvP. or maybe have it proc a 1000 damage arcane DD sometimes on hit, but only vs. horde.

[Chaotic]

concur w/metra

Just make the abilities different on pvp rewards, and make them equal to raid level pve loot.

IE: increased stealth detection, clicky 3 immune/sprint/annul etc
With cool downs, obviously.

+'s to vs hoarde seem to be the easiest example

[Vaclav]

Remember that there is going to be PvE targets within the battlegrounds (at least I'm pretty sure I remember that) - Raids within Battlegrounds would be the highest risk, thus logically highest reward.

[Kolle]

PvE folks who simply don't want to PvP won't like this, but it's the way it should be.

The greatest challenges should reap the greatest rewards. It's a simple and true statement. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that winning a battleground against a lot of PvPers and killing the uber mob bosses for loot is more of a challenge than going to some dungeon and killing a dragon.

The only thing hard about PvE raid encounters is learning the trick. When you first try it you don't know exactly what to expect and you die some. After awhile you learn the encounter and that's it. It's pharm status.

Having to not only do that but wage a massive PvP battle at the same time has got to take far more dedication, skill, and teamwork.

[Twisten]

The trouble with PvP loot vs PvE loot is that the PvE encounter is always of a fixed difficulty whereas the PvP encounter difficulty will vary depending how good the opponents are.
You also have the problem of making sure the two opposing sides can't help each other farm points/loots etc

[BirgittePovar]

That's the biggest hurdle right there.

If you make the PvP gear best, how do you stop friends from using each other to exploit the system to get the best gear with no effort?

There is no way for the engine to decide whether the person really tried or just limped and fell over dead.

[Merauk]

I am more interested in what the loss is in PVP then the reward. In order for PVP to have any meaning there needs to be both loss and reward, to have one without the other is pointless.

[Mippo]

I am pretty sure the article comparing raid loots to pvp loots was comparing the item appearances, not stats. Basically it said that someone who was a pvp leader would stand out visually, but it did not say anything about which items would provide better stats.

WoW is using item progression for their raids. If battleground loot had superior stats to the items given from high-end raiding, guilds could gear up in the battlegrounds, then pass months worth of raiding content because they are already geared from battlegrounds. Heck, if the loot is better and more visually appealing then the loot obtained in the top raids, why even bother raiding?

If Blizzard is smart, battleground loot will look better, and be equivalent in stats to the low-end raiding. All the way at the top of the battleground reward system, Blizzard should put 2-3 of the best items in the game. Possibly 1 item with better stats then the high-end raids, and 2 novelty items like a faster mount. 1 item wouldn't be enough to ruin the item progression system and the item plus the few novelty items would give high-end raiders incentive to do the battlegrounds. The battleground loot for non-raiders could replace the early raids, and start them off in the 2nd or third tier of raiding. Basically, it would be a system where people would have an incentive to do both raids and battlegrounds.

[Bizanich]

Concur with Mippo.

The article I remember said the stats for a PvE vs PvP shield would be the same, but the PvP might be a black shield with a cool design, whereas the PvE wouldn't look as cool.

But, stat wise, there would be no penalty.

[Vaclav]

So you guys think that the commanders in each PVP area will have shitty loot considering they're going to be the absolute pinnacle of difficulty for a long time most likely?

[0hz]

Originally posted by Mippo
I am pretty sure the article comparing raid loots to pvp loots was comparing the item appearances, not stats. Basically it said that someone who was a pvp leader would stand out visually, but it did not say anything about which items would provide better stats.

WoW is using item progression for their raids. If battleground loot had superior stats to the items given from high-end raiding, guilds could gear up in the battlegrounds, then pass months worth of raiding content because they are already geared from battlegrounds. Heck, if the loot is better and more visually appealing then the loot obtained in the top raids, why even bother raiding?

Because it's easier...Just like EQ, WoW PVE and that of any other game for the foreseeable future will boil down to levles and numbers with canned "Safehouse" strategies eventually becoming available to anyone who can google.

All of those things will be meaningless in any halfway sensible GB implementation.

"Raiders" going up against PVP specialists will have no more hope than a couple of guys who've beaten Half Life fives times each against a top CS clan.

Originally posted by Mippo If Blizzard is smart, battleground loot will look better, and be equivalent in stats to the low-end raiding. All the way at the top of the battleground reward system, Blizzard should put 2-3 of the best items in the game. Possibly 1 item with better stats then the high-end raids, and 2 novelty items like a faster mount. 1 item wouldn't be enough to ruin the item progression system and the item plus the few novelty items would give high-end raiders incentive to do the battlegrounds. The battleground loot for non-raiders could replace the early raids, and start them off in the 2nd or third tier of raiding. Basically, it would be a system where people would have an incentive to do both raids and battlegrounds. [/b]

I would hope not. WoW's PVP system is good enough satiate serious PVP players for a while to come but screwing up and/or taking too long to implement the rewards will lose them in a hearbeat.

[0hz]

Originally posted by BirgittePovar
That's the biggest hurdle right there.

If you make the PvP gear best, how do you stop friends from using each other to exploit the system to get the best gear with no effort?

There is no way for the engine to decide whether the person really tried or just limped and fell over dead.

I can't wait to see how this is handled. I feel confident though. I'm sure Blizzard has learned something from the mess of ladder/ranking systems and RP farming in DAOC.