Paladin healing - taken from WoW boards

Hardcore Cracka · 01-06-2005, 04:33 PM

Ok, I'm copy/pasting this here because I swear to god the people on the WoW boards are mentally challenged. I didn't write this, so don't give me any credit. I'm just bringing it to light among a group of people who know exactly how much this can and will affect the end game.

"Currently, there is an issue with Paladins and their role as healers. Please read through this all before you comment.

There are a few issues that contribute to this. Because Paladins are a plate class, and can heal, Blizzard didn't want them to be able to hold agro better than warriors, so they made heal spells for paladins, and only paladins, cause next to 0 agro. This is half of the problem.

The other half of the problem is that paladins can combine a few items and spells to allow a group of them to heal forever without running out of mp. All it requires is for paladins to gather gear that gives +healing on it, and then use a seal that gives +healing (which scales with the level of spell cast while seal is on) to gain roughly 300 points on their lowest level heal. That heal also takes roughly 35 mp to cast, but the off-hand item from the Linken quest line in Un'goro decreases all spell costs by 25 mp. That means that paladins can cast a heal that does roughly 350 hp for 10 mp, and chain that spell without ever running out of mana.

Now, if you take 5+ paladins and have them all do that, they can then keep up a main tank on a raid without ever running out of mp or getting agro, and leave the priests free to only do back-up healing and group heals."

Essentially, with this specific setup, you can have 5 paladins keep a single target healed for next to no mana and no aggro. Throw in some priests for spot heals and you are set to kill whatever you can keep on one tank.

Personally, I think a rather simple fix to this would be to remove the Linken quest reward from the game and adjust the way +healing gear works so it does not favor low level spells.

Thoughts?

Yermum Onceme · 01-06-2005, 04:37 PM

remove paladins and ip ban everyone with a paladin main, then remove all night elves and undead rogues. Problem fixed.

The other solution is to add a minimum to when that item would work, perhaps 100mp, and to make the paladin +heal items and seals work in the same shitty way that other focuses do: UP TO a certain amount.

Valos · 01-06-2005, 04:38 PM

Nerf paladins.

Make the level requirements on the gear effect spells that level+ only.

boy- · 01-06-2005, 04:45 PM

Unfortunately the thread has a whole pile of crap, and only a few interesting posts.

First of all on page3, some guy mentions that healing foci doesn't work like that. He's right. (I tested it yesterday), for rank1 flash of light, you only get +1 for each item you have, even if the item lists +20 or whatever. That already removes 100-200 healage out of the calculations.

It *is* true that blessing of light (and i presume amplify dmg as well) does increase healing by a flat amt regardless of rank. However amplify dmg works also with priest healing, so you can erase that from any paladin advantages.

I don't see the frequently cited issue of paladin aggro coming uphere. I can spam greater heal on a tank 1v1 and not get aggro, I don't see how i'd get aggro spamming a spell with maxheal 57.

So basically when you remove all the misinformation and crap, this thread is mentioning that blessing of light should scale with the ranks of the spell, which at the moment it does not. The most enlightening post in the thread is on page9 when the original poster reveals he's a holy/disc priest from magister. His issues with inner focus vs. divine favor actaully have some merit. His theorycraft idea of healing (with exception of the blessing of light issue) totally doesn't.

Oh yes, and for the two conquest paladins who agree that this is a feasible and usable idea -- I would too if my average priest's raid attendance was sub-40%

Fadaar · 01-06-2005, 05:11 PM

Which is exactly why not having percentage based boosts is a bad bad thing. 100 hp added to a 25 hp heal is quite a bit different than adding 100 hp to a 3000 point heal. Now if the number added is something significant enough to make a low level spell worth using at higher levels (ie what this thread is talking about), then sirs we have a problem.

EQ focus effects for the win, Alex.

frott · 01-06-2005, 05:35 PM

I am missing the difference here between

"4 paladins can keep a 5th healed for no mana"

and what 4 priests would be able to do with no mana and these same, or similar, items.

As was stated, super low level healing spells, even if spammed, aren't going to cause aggro.

boy- · 01-06-2005, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by frott
I am missing the difference here between

"4 paladins can keep a 5th healed for no mana"

and what 4 priests would be able to do with no mana and these same, or similar, items.

As was stated, super low level healing spells, even if spammed, aren't going to cause aggro.

Blessing of light. It adds a fixed amt of healing only for paladin heals. That said, if that's fixed to scale like foci, then there really is no issue.

Algol Devilstar · 01-06-2005, 05:59 PM

Are you a paladin boy?

The Bog · 01-06-2005, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yermum Onceme
remove paladins and ip ban everyone with a paladin main, then remove all night elves and undead rogues. Problem fixed..

see, this is the sort of thinking we need more of.

Duppin · 01-06-2005, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yermum Onceme
remove paladins and ip ban everyone with a paladin main, then remove all night elves and undead rogues. Problem fixed.

Gnomes have to go too!

0hz · 01-06-2005, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by frott
I am missing the difference here between

"4 paladins can keep a 5th healed for no mana"

and what 4 priests would be able to do with no mana and these same, or similar, items.

As was stated, super low level healing spells, even if spammed, aren't going to cause aggro.

Well...

I think it might be the fact that priests don't have Blessing of Light (+300 tothe effect of all holy light spells) which is the foundation of this strat.

Hah!

Gar · 01-06-2005, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Oh yes, and for the two conquest paladins who agree that this is a feasible and usable idea -- I would too if my average priest's raid attendance was sub-40%

I spilled my coffee when I read that. Hilarious stuff. :-)

Brodda Thep · 01-06-2005, 07:57 PM

Try molten core bosses then come back to me about how powerful using paladins to flash heal one target is. I really doubt you will find that it is that useful of a tactic.

Using a paladin flash healing they get about 90 with their rank 2 flash (don't use rank 1, ther eis no reason to) then 115 from their seal then 30 from the mage spell (it doesn't heal for the full amount listed) then about 60 with 200 in + healing items. For about 330 hp every 1.9 seconds accounting for lag. This is not a lot of sustained HPS. Any 300+ spirit priest will easily be able to sustain that amount of HPS by rotating them in.

Destinae · 01-07-2005, 02:20 AM

While this is obviously game-breaking, imagine the implications if said paladins could drink while in combat. A round of applause for Mippo, please.

Charron · 01-07-2005, 04:43 AM

The solution is to have Blessing of Light scale. That's the only problem at all in this.

01-06-2005, 04:33 PM	#1 (permalink)
Hardcore Cracka Majestik Moose Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,539	Paladin healing - taken from WoW boards Ok, I'm copy/pasting this here because I swear to god the people on the WoW boards are mentally challenged. I didn't write this, so don't give me any credit. I'm just bringing it to light among a group of people who know exactly how much this can and will affect the end game. "Currently, there is an issue with Paladins and their role as healers. Please read through this all before you comment. There are a few issues that contribute to this. Because Paladins are a plate class, and can heal, Blizzard didn't want them to be able to hold agro better than warriors, so they made heal spells for paladins, and only paladins, cause next to 0 agro. This is half of the problem. The other half of the problem is that paladins can combine a few items and spells to allow a group of them to heal forever without running out of mp. All it requires is for paladins to gather gear that gives +healing on it, and then use a seal that gives +healing (which scales with the level of spell cast while seal is on) to gain roughly 300 points on their lowest level heal. That heal also takes roughly 35 mp to cast, but the off-hand item from the Linken quest line in Un'goro decreases all spell costs by 25 mp. That means that paladins can cast a heal that does roughly 350 hp for 10 mp, and chain that spell without ever running out of mana. Now, if you take 5+ paladins and have them all do that, they can then keep up a main tank on a raid without ever running out of mp or getting agro, and leave the priests free to only do back-up healing and group heals." Essentially, with this specific setup, you can have 5 paladins keep a single target healed for next to no mana and no aggro. Throw in some priests for spot heals and you are set to kill whatever you can keep on one tank. Personally, I think a rather simple fix to this would be to remove the Linken quest reward from the game and adjust the way +healing gear works so it does not favor low level spells. Thoughts? __________________

01-06-2005, 04:45 PM	#4 (permalink)
boy- Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 267 +0 Internets	Unfortunately the thread has a whole pile of crap, and only a few interesting posts. First of all on page3, some guy mentions that healing foci doesn't work like that. He's right. (I tested it yesterday), for rank1 flash of light, you only get +1 for each item you have, even if the item lists +20 or whatever. That already removes 100-200 healage out of the calculations. It is true that blessing of light (and i presume amplify dmg as well) does increase healing by a flat amt regardless of rank. However amplify dmg works also with priest healing, so you can erase that from any paladin advantages. I don't see the frequently cited issue of paladin aggro coming uphere. I can spam greater heal on a tank 1v1 and not get aggro, I don't see how i'd get aggro spamming a spell with maxheal 57. So basically when you remove all the misinformation and crap, this thread is mentioning that blessing of light should scale with the ranks of the spell, which at the moment it does not. The most enlightening post in the thread is on page9 when the original poster reveals he's a holy/disc priest from magister. His issues with inner focus vs. divine favor actaully have some merit. His theorycraft idea of healing (with exception of the blessing of light issue) totally doesn't. Oh yes, and for the two conquest paladins who agree that this is a feasible and usable idea -- I would too if my average priest's raid attendance was sub-40% Last edited by boy- : 01-06-2005 at 04:52 PM.

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01-06-2005, 04:37 PM	#2 (permalink)
Yermum Onceme Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: PA Posts: 1,523 +0 Internets	remove paladins and ip ban everyone with a paladin main, then remove all night elves and undead rogues. Problem fixed. The other solution is to add a minimum to when that item would work, perhaps 100mp, and to make the paladin +heal items and seals work in the same shitty way that other focuses do: UP TO a certain amount.

01-06-2005, 04:38 PM	#3 (permalink)
Valos Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Phoenix Posts: 304 +6 Internets	Nerf paladins. Make the level requirements on the gear effect spells that level+ only.

01-06-2005, 05:11 PM	#5 (permalink)
Fadaar Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 1,846 -11 Internets	Which is exactly why not having percentage based boosts is a bad bad thing. 100 hp added to a 25 hp heal is quite a bit different than adding 100 hp to a 3000 point heal. Now if the number added is something significant enough to make a low level spell worth using at higher levels (ie what this thread is talking about), then sirs we have a problem. EQ focus effects for the win, Alex.

01-06-2005, 05:35 PM	#6 (permalink)
frott Banned Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,390 +0 Internets	I am missing the difference here between "4 paladins can keep a 5th healed for no mana" and what 4 priests would be able to do with no mana and these same, or similar, items. As was stated, super low level healing spells, even if spammed, aren't going to cause aggro.

01-06-2005, 05:59 PM	#8 (permalink)
Algol Devilstar Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The NW Posts: 3,497 +0 Internets	Are you a paladin boy?

01-06-2005, 07:57 PM	#13 (permalink)
Brodda Thep Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 370 -1 Internets	Try molten core bosses then come back to me about how powerful using paladins to flash heal one target is. I really doubt you will find that it is that useful of a tactic. Using a paladin flash healing they get about 90 with their rank 2 flash (don't use rank 1, ther eis no reason to) then 115 from their seal then 30 from the mage spell (it doesn't heal for the full amount listed) then about 60 with 200 in + healing items. For about 330 hp every 1.9 seconds accounting for lag. This is not a lot of sustained HPS. Any 300+ spirit priest will easily be able to sustain that amount of HPS by rotating them in.

01-07-2005, 02:20 AM	#14 (permalink)
Destinae Fires of Heaven Officer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 248 +0 Internets	While this is obviously game-breaking, imagine the implications if said paladins could drink while in combat. A round of applause for Mippo, please.

01-07-2005, 04:43 AM	#15 (permalink)
Charron Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 67 +0 Internets	The solution is to have Blessing of Light scale. That's the only problem at all in this.