Whats the real problem with Warriors?

[BoggiesSZ]

Now I haven't seen a thread that specifically focuses on this, so I'm gonna go ahead and post at the risk of looking like a moron.

Seriously, what is wrong with warriors? Now I've only played three classes: warrior, rogue, and priest, but I fail to see why warriors are always bitching about how underpowered they are. I believe that people just don't understand that warriors, by design, are the most gear dependent class in the game.

We are the only class where every single ability except Rend relies on our gear. I specifically chose this class because I play a lot and have time to farm instances for the best gear at any given level. With nearly half of my gear being blue items, I can handle any instance although I juggle stances all day long, and in PVP I feel a bit too strong.

Against even level opponents, I can usually beat every class except shamen and mages. Shamen go 50/50, and mages tend to rape me pretty good. I feel the major probelm with the class is people assume it to be a simple class and why noit? Warriors have always been the no brains hack and slash glass. Very few people take the time to look at all their abilities and realize how useful they are. The ones that stick out to me are Intercept and Berserker Rage (I think that's what it's called. The fear immunity move).

The warrior class, like bards in EQ, require strong quick fingers in order to reach our potential.

There are only a couple things I would like changed for our class: More hitpoints and Inner Rage. It bothers me to see that many shamen approach my HP based on that fact that every piece of green gear I wear is "Of the bear." I have roughly equal STR and STA. I would like to see base HP imrpoved a bit, not by much but 15% more would be really nice.

The second thing people can't seem to shut up about is rage generation. The worst scenario being if you are jumped and cant charge for that initial rage. I would like to see Inner Rage reimplemented so that we could instantly generate 20 rage in any stance with a 2 minute cooldown. This hovering at 20 rage idea is crap and too powerful.

I've played up to level 55 and completed everything through Sunken Temple, so I feel that I know what I'm doing pretty well. Feel free to show why I'm wrong or offer other ideas.

[Qalar-Drinal]

IMO its rage generation like you said. Every class has mana or energy to drive its class skills. All those classes start with 100% mana/energy fresh, while the warrior starts with 0%. Warriors need to be able to use their skills like rogues or any other class can.

Warriors need to generate rage while in combat, somewhere around 1 point every 2-5sec no matter what. They also need to generate 40% rage of the total that would have been recieved if they score a hit when they miss a target. Same while in defensive stance and getting hit.

[Deathwing]

I was all ready to flame you for bringing that b.net whining shit here. Title your posts more accurately next time, got my hopes worked up for nothing.

Anyway, I've switched from my level 36 priest to a warrior. I was the highest char in my guild, so I soloed almost all the time. And when I did group(instances), there was always this idiot mage that didn't understand the concept of agro. He would always say "what? they don't do anything"...yeah, because I heal your ass. I was seriously contemplating sticking with that guild to see him draw agro in BRS and not even my healing could save him from the rampaging orcs.

Anyway, that combined with the boring monotonous of priest soloing(yay, shield, mind blast, pain, 3xflay, melee down, wait a bit for mana to regen), made me start a warrior on an alliance server. Level 21 now, and much more exciting, and haven't even gotten some of the more exciting abilities yet(slam, execute, whirlwind).

I agree with you, I think the whiners just don't have the skill to play the class, and thus think the class is broken. I love seeing those "let's fix the class!" posts on the bnet forums. Quite humorous.

I also agree with the HP part....I think it's kinda pathetic we don't get more HP per sta than other classes(paladins aside).


Just as an aside, I've been using Cosmos, and just switched to Gypsy. Anyone know if there is a way to asign which weapons you use based on which stance you're in?

[xilsharn]

create a macro and then shift-left click on Defensive/Battle stance in your spell book to get the "/cast " line in the macro

[CnCGOD]

You know, I don't hate my warrior. PvP or PvE I feel fine. And trust me, I am usualy the first one to whine when a class sucks.

[Zehn - Vhex]

It's not so much that mages suck, it's that paladins are so much better. And since 90% of the alliance are paladins (the other 10% being night elf hunters named Heartlove and Suteki...they'd fucking have ^_^ if they could as their fucking names god I want to rape them all with a fucking dull bulldozer.)

Uh...

Hrmn.

[Iannis]

that would be the coolest name ever.

didn't worthless or someone have a thread about having warrior 'idle rage' awhile back...

[AngryGerbil]

That was FuckYou and I still think it's the wrong direction.

I for one am pretty much content with my warrior. Seeing my miss rate makes me cry sometimes but other than that, I don't know what the problem is, I really truly honestly don't have the problems holding aggro like I hear some people describe. Sure, I've had a few bad pulls here or there where the rogue might have to off tank for a bit, but even then the group manages to get it done.

I'm lvl 42 and so far have been able to do my job to my satisfaction, I hold aggro.

*cue obligitory rib-dig post from the aggro-stealing DPS machine Zinke about how I suck *

[Stoerm]

It's relative.

I played a Sham an to LOW lovels (23 my first character). There was no comparison up till this point (no clue how it is later, by all accounts it just gets worse), it made my warrior look retarded.

I played a priest to mid (42) levels. While boring, it had greater soloability than a warrior > 35th level.

Im currently playing warrior (36th). I have large donations of gold that keep me in blue weapons/high green armor. I have 95% best equipment available to me, and have had that leveling up. I have respecced talents 3 times since 30 (what's that tell you) trying all possbile combinations out.

Warriors aren't UNPLAYABLE. They are fine, people can and do play them and have fun at these levels. Comparatively speaking, when using the MAJORITY of other classes as a baseline, they suck. There may be another class that sucks as hard that I have no personal experience with, so I won't say warriors are the worst.

I won't mention Shamans, which even as early as lvl 23 made my warrior look like a 1-handed 1-eyed special ed star. Rather, my Priest (and they are suck/mediocre soloing by all accounts -- again, I haven't played every class to compare but thats the consensus -- BLOWS away my warriors solo ability since my warrior hit 30). Again, this is with the best gear around for the warrior.


This don't mean you can't have fun playing one. Some people love being pooped on -- just most of them are Germans.

[Magnum PI]

The problem with warriors? They are a fucking useless class. They are too single use oriented--hold aggro and then survive enough until the other party members, those who are multi purposed and truly matter, kill it.

For years I though EQ should just nerf warriors altogether and force the mouth breathing button mashers to leave the game and focus on FPS or adapt and learn to use a mulifacated class like a bard or, hell anything else.

All single job oriented classes should go, that way everyones character will be able to do more than 1 thing and no one will sit on the sidelines alone whineing about why they have no friends.

[Kaxmax]

Warriors are not a "single use class", that misconception is the biggest problem. Most people pigeonhole them into the sole role of tanking. My normal group usually has two warriors. I tank, the other warrior is mostly DPS. Single target DPS, he will never come close to a rogue. However, in berserk stance with a big 2-hander, he can do pretty respectable damage to multiple mobs. He's arms/fury, so he has SS, improved cleave, flurry, whirlwind etc to work with. If the shit hits the fan or we get adds on healers, he can swap in a shield and tank. We've swapped a rogue in his spot a few times, and honestly I think the group runs more efficiently with the 2nd warrior.

Edit: As far as soloing, I haven't had any problems up to 50. Get a big 2-hander and go nuts. I have never had a problem with anything within 3 levels of me (4 is usually doable, but takes forever). We may not be as fast as a rogue, but why should we be?

[FuckYou]

My current irritatations with warriors are:

1. Hit points. Too low in comparison to other melee classes.

2. Accuracy. Horrible.

3. Special Ability Accuracy - ridiculous. I parsed a 21% miss rate on Execute over 60 attempts the other night. Come on.

All in all the class is viable. Needs some adjustments however.

[Magnum PI]

Originally posted by FuckYou
My current irritatations with warriors are:

1. Hit points. Too low in comparison to other melee classes.

2. Accuracy. Horrible.

3. Special Ability Accuracy - ridiculous. I parsed a 21% miss rate on Execute over 60 attempts the other night. Come on.

All in all the class is viable. Needs some adjustments however.

Do NOT give warriors more HP. That will throw the game into a fit and require cheal type spells. Up their avoidance or innate AC to remedy that.

As for accuracy if they increase that they will need to increase the HP of mobs to counter the DPS of rogues, pets, arrows/guns in the melee bucket. Again if you want to get closer to the accuracy of a rogue or hunter then play one. They need to get warriors another task to be more helpful to a party then holding aggro. Do something like Leadership so when peeps hook up with a warrior they get more spirit, more DPS focus and bonuses when fighting boss mobs in instances.

[FuckYou]

With regards to accuracy, it directly effects our ability to perform abilities, since those require rage which are (mostly) generated from hitting mobs.

They either need to:

(a) increase accuracy and adjust DPS down to keep it in line
(b) add fractional rage generation to misses

That is just dealing with straight melee. Abilities like Rend, Hamstring and especially Execute have heinous miss rates. If you arent familiar with Execute, it's a finishing-type move that consumes 100% of available rage. I parsed a 21% miss rate on it - thats a 1 in 5 chance that you will lose all rage and do zero damage. Sweet.

Moving on to Hit Points, I'd be fine with warriors getting a 10% boost in each forms of avoidance (parry/dodge/block) to compensate for our lack of HP benefits.

[Charron]

I play a level 57 paladin and, I played Paladins and Warriors in beta as well from when the level cap was 15.

I just don't get the problem w/ warriors. While yes, I am very nifty and slick and can do a lot of cool things, what the higher end game boils down to is doing exactly what one of the above posters mentioned. Hold mobs on you and let others kill them. That's the tank role, and warriors are very good at that. They are MUCH MUCH better at that than a Paladin.

Last night we were doing the upper part of BRS, Rend/Beast/General, and do you know what I did? I was a cleric. I was the only healer in my group. All the main tanks in all the groups were Warriors.

In many fights you couldn't even have a Paladin as a tank. A lot of bosses have knockbacks that clear agro. The boss in Gnomeregan does, as do the drakes and dragon in Temple, as does Ant'sul in Zul, as does Onyxia. A paladin can never get agro back when he is cleared. A paladin can build a lot of hate on a target or two over time. If their hate is cleared they have no way to catch up.

As such, Paladins are a support class. They are not an essential class, and given their numbers you are never short on paladins. My role in any good group is offtank/backup healer/buffer. Paladins are a distant 5th in my grouping/raid heirarchy of classes. In order:

Priest - best healer, makes the backbone of any good high end group.
Warrior - best tank, holds agro and can pull as well as anyone.
Mage - highest burst dps, sheep crowd control.
Rogue - sap crowd control, highest maintained dps.
Paladin - best support class. Buffs, backup healing, off tanking. can heal very easily while tanking 1 mob.
Druid - 2nd best healer, buffer.
Hunter - decent dps, sometimes pet can off tank.
Warlock - a lot of nice tricks and buffs/debuffs. Needs help more than any other class.