McQuaid v. Garriot

[FoghornDeadhorn]

Well, not really. In this article, they asked the same eight questions about MMORPGs of Brad McQuaid and Richard Garriot. They didn't tell either one that the other was also going to answer the questions, only that other industry professionals were being interviewed.

What I find interesting about this, other than the obvious, is that both of them give predictably similar answers most of the time, yet both of them are going in MASSIVELY different directions with their current personal projects. Brad, with Vanguard, is basically putting his foot down that there will be no instancing, the world will be huge, and content will be the real answer to the problems being answered with the different approaches that have been taken to MMORPGs of late. Garriot, on the other hand, with his baby "Tabula Rasa" I believe, is taking what I understand to be a very Guild Wars-esque approach to it, with a hub system and nearly total instancing. One is also going with traditional high fantasy as a backdrop while the other has moved on to high-flying 'Sci-Fi' of a hardness yet to be determined.

Anyway, I'm kinda surprised no one else posted this in the twelve hours since I've seen it...but it lends some meat for...you know...real discussion.

Back to my game!

[The Bog]

Tabula Rasa? More like Tabula ASSA. It did not impress me.

[FoghornDeadhorn]

Originally posted by The Bog
Tabula Rasa? More like Tabula ASSA. It did not impress me.

Oh snap.

[Slagar]

If you give an RPG player a new concept for a new MMO, he's going to want to believe it's the next great thing.

If he wants to believe it's the next great thing, he can't wait for beta - he can't wait to play it.

If he plays in the beta, he gets pissed off because of all the changes they're making to the game and the game loses its sense of purity.

Once he gets all pissed off in beta, there's going to be a hasty release - with missed content/character/gameplay goals.

If there's a launch with missing content they're going to need to patch it right up quick.

If there's lots of patches trying to fix initially missing or broken content there's going to be lots of bugs/exploits/"not working as intended".

If there's lots thats not working as intended then there's going to be lots of nerfs.

If there's lots of nerfs the players get pissy and moany.

If the players get pissy and moany they start looking to see if there's something else.

If players might be looking for something else, then the next great company comes along with the next great thing.

[Wilf McQuade]

I like what both of them had to say and they parallel my own thoughts and wishes as to what a MMOG should be like in a general sense. They strike me as intelligent men who understand both the business as well as the game design side of things.

One of the more interesting generalizations or themes that I garnered is about the player base and catering to their needs and wants. It might not have been explicitly stated, but, understanding human nature and what makes us tick is of vital importance when creating a MMOG. Do players want it all handed to them or do they want a real challenge? Do players like to be the singular hero among thousands or blend in amongst the masses and assume their role as status quo. The role that instancing plays in this as opposed to a dynamic ever changing world.

Avoiding repetition and min maxing through obscurity in numbers or revealing all the #'s up front. I am not sure how that can be avoided with all of the third party programs out there unfortunately.

It seems to me that the current crop of MMOGs are not inline with the vision that Brad and Richard have in mind. If the future of MMOGs games are to more closely mimic reality (The Matrix) then they can not primarily offer character advancement and differentiation through the accumulation of lvls and wealth. The reason being is that the prevalence of hard and soft caps eventually tend to homogenize the populace rather than differentiate it further as time elapses.

Something else needs to be present to differentiate one person from the next. I always felt that players should have their history chronicled so that it is visible in some form to the world at large. For example if I were to inspect a character like Behemoth in game it would show his history and the travels of his character. He was the first to slay Lord Nagafen and on such and such a day or set foot on Doom Mountain etc. Maybe some of these historical accomplishments would be reflective in his appearance by way the flesh of Lord Nagafen attached to his leggings or some such deal. Anyway, beyond tossing ideas out there, I really appreciate what Richard had to say with regards to wanting to be the hero in MMOG similar to that of a single player game.

[Duhulk]

He was the first to slay Lord Nagafen and on such and such a day or set foot on Doom Mountain etc

EQ2players.com is gonna have stuff just like that.

[Lin]

Originally posted by FoghornDeadhorn
Oh snap.

Why the fuck are people suddenly saying this? Are you 90 years old? This is something my great grandfather would say.

[Kreugen]

Garriot was replaced by an alien clone the day after ultima 7.5 was finished.

[Kolle]

cute as a bug's ear

[Jait]

Originally posted by Kreugen
Garriot was replaced by an alien clone the day after ultima 7.5 was finished.

Actually, he became Batlin. Close though.

[Cybsled]

When I inspected Behemoth, it said "First player to have a gold name and the first to finally get his pony" ;(

[softwillow]

That was a very, very good article.

I think they should have added Raph Koster to the interviewed list. He is a great theorist and eloquant communicator on the subject. He may be far off the mark when things are put into practice (I absolutely despise what he did to SWG), but his theories are quite thought-provoking and well researched.

[FoghornDeadhorn]

I could have posted a picture of a flaming bag of dog shit and it would have gotten more responses than this. Here you have two of the largest figures in the MMO industry talking about their philosophies on the genre and we have eleven replies, one of which is "Oh snap"?

I thought what Richard had to say about being the hero was indeed one of the most thought provoking bits in there. Most people lead very average lives in these games, he says. His answer to this seems to be instanced storytelling...or something. Not bad. Brad wants to do something more dramatic, more...difficult, but doesn't want to say what. Both want the player to feel like they have had an impact on the world. Only one suggests that the impact you have will be on the world, not just your version of it. The other says that with that sort of system, only a select few get to be the heroes...

I really don't know how you would implement a world in which your actions actually had a real effect without screwing over players to come later...it is intriguing to say the least. All I can say is they need to stave off Vanguard release for another two years, I need that much time with WoW at least, and the more I see and hear about the game the more I'm anticipating getting sucked in. Something NeoNorrath just aint gonna do for me.

If you haven't read the article, do so. It is very interesting.

[Wilf McQuade]

The challenge as I see it to having a dynamic ever changing world is managing the time frame associated with these changes. History is important to us because it has had a profound impact on our current state even if we were not aware or present during those events (however small or large) which altered the state of being. Humans are distinct from other species in that we evolve culturally as well as physcially. That being, we learn from our past through the recording of history via the written word and story telling. Arguments aside about the limited abilities of other species to do this, I believe with a MMOG that history CAN NOT unfold too quickly or it its impact will be lost.

Should Brad and Co. or someone else decide to create an everchanging dynamic world in which the actions of people throughout time have an impact on future generations, then these impacts must neither be minimal nor too frequent. Using my Behemoth example, the slaying of Lord Nagafen had to be a pivotal event in history, recorded in books housed in a MMOG museum for players to visit. More so than an ingame museum though the carcass of Naggy should be preserved throughout time in a central place with a plaque attached to, inscribed with the characters names of those who first slayed the beast and how this historical moment triggered B and C to unfold which are directly influencing those standing before this shrine at the present moment.

Of course creating a world like this poses all kinds of challenges to developers and players alike. How do you create enough key moments in history to allow everyone an opportunity at being the hero without diluting its significance. In other words can you maintain the importance of history and recognize those people who took part in it? Also, how can the event involve (directly and indirectly) enough people so that it becomes important (past, present and future) to the lives of all players. I would venture that improvements can be made over previous MMOG titles but perhaps not everyone will attain the same level of historical infamy which is fine. However, the key is to invole more people, recognize contributions and preserve the stories of the peeople who truly do make up a MMOG, the pc's.

One thing I always noticed from players including myself is that they wanted to distinguish their accomplishment from others. Whether they played the game since Alpha, killed Naggy in the early days, explored Veeshan's Peak upon its opening, completed the Dain Ring quest etc. Players need and want to be able to attach significance to their characters lives and in a static world significance is lost as history literally repeats itself ad nauseum. Players love to tell others of their exploits. All you have to do is look at message board bragging rights throughout the years. Players should not have to resort to using outside message boards to remind others of their accomplishments in game. More importantly, these accomplishments should have some meaning for others beyond the tuning of static content.

Anyway, beginning to repeat myself.

[Wilf McQuade]

People can not continue to think about epic encounters in the same fashion that they are accustomed to. By this I mean challenging encounters that are killed over and over (farm status) by countless guilds and players throughout time.

In a dynamic world an epic encounter might take weeks to kill and would be subject to permadeath. Using my Naggy example, perhaps the dragon awakes and enters Norrath for some such reasons. He (assuming Naggy is male) is seen and heard throughout Norrath as players reflect upon his lore and begin the search for Lord Nagafen. He and his servants are tracked and hunted, knowing of the stories being told about his riches and the coming of events upon his death. Without fabricating too much bs for the sake of making a point, Naggy should be as a real dragon has been known.

He is not killed in a single battle but over time with each slash and spell contributing to his demise (read fixed hitpoint total). Many people who encounter him will perish but they might have left their mark on his body nontheless. Upon the initial encounter, Nagafen will move about, and retreat when wounded to another part of the world. Over time enough swords and spells will have landed to end his life, alter the world and make history. Of course these types of encounters work best in a world that is large and feels large. One that can not be traversed in a few seconds via teleport etc. That would lend to involving more people from different parts of the world as those who tracked him or landed the first blow would not be able to make their way towards his new haunting grounds for days at best.

Challenges about distributing loot and experience in such encounters appears difficult but it is not entirely without possibilities. Causing the dragon to retreat, discovering his location or perhaps even perishing at his hand could earn the player rewards. People of all lvls could be involved from slaying him or being a noob in a village that he destroys.