EQ2 Summit

[The Bog]

I got five hours play, and was only corrected on what content I was allowed to release to the childrens. So poo on you.

[Sylas]

correct me if i'm wrong, but I read EQ2 healers are divided as follows:

Cleric = best direct healing
Druid = Best healing over time
Shaman = Best at special ward things that prevent damage from being taken, or something weird like that, which basically becomes eq2's version of slow.

someone with the leet beta infoz, Is that how they were planning on balancing Healers? cus they tried the exact same thing in EQ1 and since you can have both a cleric and shaman in your group at the same time, you might wanna let them know it's still broken.

[Vaclav]

The concept isn't bad - what screws it up in EQ1 is the overpowering nature of Slow and CH...

Take Slow and CH out of the equation and the concept seems to have potential of balance - although it's a fine line.

[Angry Amadeus]

Originally posted by Lenardo
I never got invited to the soe event(couldn't go even if i was due to the wife being HEAVILY pregnant (monday giving birth to the twins)

Congratulations on the kids as well as the capitalization.

Ta,


Happy Amadeus

[Froofy-D]

I was on the DAOC Gaheris server (coop, no RVR) and having 20+ classes worked well. Sure there is some overlap of abilities among classes, but it adds a lot of variety and makes for some interesting groups. As in DAOC, it seems that there will really be only 4 archetypes in EQ2 anyway - tank, caster, healer, and stealth.

[BanquozGhost]

Many of the classes on Gaheris are virtually nonexistent. Stealthers are rare and some of the more vanilla melees and casters are scarce as well. Gaheris is a choice between playing one of the more accomplished soloing classes, one of 3-4 tank classes, one of the more difficult to bot support classes, or dragging around a bot and playing whatever you want. You have the option to play 30+ classes, but the realities of the game make your real options much narrower than that.

[Phoenix]

Class balance is gonna consist of one nigga coming up and slammin some other nigga's head into the groud and be like "NIGGA U JUST BALANCED!".

[FoghornDeadhorn]

Originally posted by The Bog
I don't know why, but I found that hilarious

I will now make the same comparison between Shaman and Paladin:

1

nm

[Shinrai]

Balance is not a constant though. Both CH and Slow were balanced when they were introduced. However each change to the game changes the environment within which the classes must be equally viable, and doing so with fewer classes and clearly discriminated roles makes that a heck of a lot easier.

It is conceivable there are two many classes within WoW. There are certainly too many within EQ2, unless the classes end up being little more than added flavor to the base archetypes.

[Deris]

As for public beta length - that entirely depends on how long they've had a sizable internal team testing it, doesn't it?

Negative - Public Beta Length is required for innovative players/lucky retards to figure out hax, exploits, and skills that can be used in ways never intended.

Another good reason is - As an author you are supposed to let other people read your book to critique it. Same thing goes for Game Developers/Internal test teams - they may think their ideas are bang-a-rang, but when someone else actually looks at it, they might go 'wtf?'

[Ukerric]

Originally posted by Shinrai
It is conceivable there are two many classes within WoW. There are certainly too many within EQ2, unless the classes end up being little more than added flavor to the base archetypes.

Heck. Strictly speaking, there are 4 basic class specialisations (stealther, healer, nuker, tank). The rest is fluff.

The biggest problem has always been that the D&D derivatives always attempt to make those 4 classes, then create hybrids. By definition, hybrids aren't as good as their originals, leading to the usual problem: either the job requires a specialist, and the hybrids whine about not being wanted, or the job is good enough for hybrids, and the specialists whine because they get passed over for the hybrids who bring additional utility.

What you need, really, is to do away with the Warrior, Cleric, Rogue and Wizard. There should be no such thing. Instead of a tank and two sub-tanks, you should have 3 classes that tank about equally well, sustain aggro equally well, but have 3 different advantages. The Paladin can do backup heals, the SK can pull and snare, and the... well, call it the Assassin can scout in stealth, engage and lock a mob at the right moment (root, with special moves or poison, or spell, up to you) while the group arrives (think rogue without backstab, but with plate and a tank's HP).

Not to deride most games, but if you put specialists, then don't put hybrids "just to add flavor". Or vice versa.


I have to agree though. 24 different classes sounds like 12 too many.

[Vaclav]

Originally posted by Deris
Negative - Public Beta Length is required for innovative players/lucky retards to figure out hax, exploits, and skills that can be used in ways never intended.

Another good reason is - As an author you are supposed to let other people read your book to critique it. Same thing goes for Game Developers/Internal test teams - they may think their ideas are bang-a-rang, but when someone else actually looks at it, they might go 'wtf?'

Actually or the company I used to do QA for that was the highest on our list of priorities to do - unless you mean hacking that involves 3rd party software - which rarely surfaces for quite a while after an MMO launch. (Nor would anyone with a brain let it become well known so early)

I'd really like to pick the average consumer's brain and figure out what the hell they honestly think QA staff do - I'm quite convinced that most think they just play the games with no pattern or goal, and haphazardly report when things are wrong or unintended. (Although I will admit - fun, complete products did encourage me to do alot of free overtime now and again)

As for critiquing - that depends on what angle the company personally wants to take, now doesn't it?

Most of the companies out there consider it better to have a few previews and/or short betas to wet the appetite of the consumer without getting them bored before the product actually releases - usually after a pretty static idea of the direction for the game has been established.

Rarely does a company have a product go into some sort of public beta state, while still tinkering with fundamentals to the game.

[Duhulk]

I'd really like to pick the average consumer's brain and figure out what the hell they honestly think QA staff do

They play the same unfinished game for up to 12 hours a day with their own little checklist of things to check for. When they do find something broken, they have to make a PAINFULLY detailed report on what the game did, and what THEY did to make it break.

[Callon]

They are bribing "community leaders" with chicken and ribs...

so.... no beer? WTF?! /rude

[Tolanin]

almost everyone i know who plays wow is bored of it or becoming bored of it, long beta doesnt mean shit, other than stressing its not a huge deal, sure you find exploits but 2 months of high stressing will uncover most exploits anyway... beta doesnt stop exploits from ruining the game, strong anti exploit policy once the game goes live stops it... you will always have exploits, fixing them fast and cracking down hard and being able to track down people who use them is far more important than trying to accomplish the impossible task of finding them all.. sure you find more in a 10 month beta than in a 2 month beta but the question is, do you find so many more that it was really worth taking an extra 8 months, or do you send out a patch a week later that breaks everything again and new things pop up? Personally with all the revisions wow has gone through they have probably fixed alot of things and then rebroken them again later, or fixed thingsthat didnt need fixing because how it was done was changed later anyway..

bottomline is in terms of exploits you need a good policy more than a long test, in terms of bugs, 2 months of stressing finds most of them so long as they rabidly fix them.