Fixing WoW PVP

[BoggiesSZ]

Currently WoW PVP is pretty fucked and is basically like the SZ server only without all the fun drama. I played most of my EQ on the TZ server, and PVP was actually pretty fun and fair in my opinion. The only 2 problems were same team healers who couldn't be touched and OOR healing/buffing due to the 8 level PVP range.

What I'm suggesting is that the within 8 level PVP system be implimented in WOW. A higher level can still have his fun ganking lower level players, but a group of players at most any level will be able to defend themselve against one person 8 levels above them. Seems pretty balanced to me. The same team healers aren't an issue at all, since you can't heal opposing team members, so no worries there, but the OOR healers could still be a problem.

To counter this, players who cast a beneficial spell on a player who is more than 8 levels above or below them could simply have a PVP flag turned on allowing all players of the opposing faction to attack them for a short time. (3 or 4 minutes?) Nobody really has any business questing with someone outside the 8 level range, so this would really only affect PLers and OOR healers.

OOR healing would still be possible if the player with the healer is lower level than his opponent, but I dont see this as being a major problem.

My ideas do have flaws, but I've been trying to think of a fix, and this is the best I got. Comments?

[ganthornx]

sounds good too me, i always thought level 50s killing level 20s was dumb

[Squink]

Might fix beta problems, but come retail, you'd end up with everyone having an autofollow level 51 priest bot to complement their level 60 main.

[Deathwing]

Originally posted by Squink
Might fix beta problems, but come retail, you'd end up with everyone having an autofollow level 51 priest bot to complement their level 60 main.

Bots...and PvP....

Don't fucking say that! Bots ruined DAoC, and Blizzard shouldn't let them anywhere near WoW PvP. Well, ok, it was one of many things that ruined DAoC.

Anyway, botting fine in PvE because, well, they're on your team no matter what. Besides, who else is going to play that boring-ass cleric who's 20th in the CH chain? Bots in PvP skew the whole "skill" factor that everyone here says they would love to have in MMORPGS.

[BoggiesSZ]

Originally posted by BoggiesSZ
To counter this, players who cast a beneficial spell on a player who is more than 8 levels above or below them could simply have a PVP flag turned on allowing all players of the opposing faction to attack them for a short time.

That's why I suggested this. I'm not in the beta myself, but I do spend way way too much time reading the boards, so I think I understand it pretty well. Feel free to find abusable loopholes or suggest other ideas.

Edit- Oh, and if anyone in Beta likes the idea, post it on the Beta boards. I get the feeling they don't take the public boards too seriously.

[Samus Aran]

Blizzard has expressly stated that they will not be level limiting pvp, they'll just put in stuff to encourage people to fight others their own size.

Frankly that's D U M

[Jitx]

SWG has a system kinda like that. There are Overt members of a faction, which means you have a reb or imp symbol next to you and can be attack by any member of the opposite faction, and there covert members. Covert members can only be attacked when they have a TEF, or Temporary Enemy Flag. You can get teffed by healing an Overt person, or attacking an opposing faction NPC, or Base, such as stormtroopers etc etc. The tef is 5 minutes long, and allows you to be attacked by a member of the opposite faction that is Overt. When covert, you do not see a person with a TEF to be overt, only Other Overt people.

This leads to a few things though. TEF Greifers is one. People group together with one Overt person. WHen that person gets attacked by the opposite faction, or attacks them, that persons (in PVP) group gets a TEF toward the person they are attacking, or who attacked them. This leads to large groups wondering around with an Overt person and just Ganking people when they get a TEF to another player that has attacked the Overt, or whom the Overt attacked.

One of the Funniest bugs lately, was TEF related. A Bounty Hunter could get a mission for a jedi, and bring a whole group around with him. The BH and the Jedi could work together to grief people. The BH group would have a tef against the jedi because of the missions, and would incap the Jedi. Then the jedi, while incapped, would Consent random people to drag his corpse(worked well in areas of high traffic like starports) which would give the person he consented, a TEF to the BH's group, who would of course then kill that person.

You could do this to anyone, Overt/Covert, even non factioned people. Was a HUGE oversight. Also, buffing an Overt Person would snag the Doctor a TEF as well, which lead to many griefing deaths also. Now they just dont Buff Overts.

Now im not suggesting this system for WoW, just giving an idea of a system currently available that is something like what was mentioned, and some of the things that can haphazardly happen through it. I think that a TEF idea is great, as long as they can code better than SoE and make some of the same glaring mistakes.

[Iannis]

Originally posted by JerleMinara
Blizzard has expressly stated that they will not be level limiting pvp, they'll just put in stuff to encourage people to fight others their own size.

Frankly that's D U M

Yes, because god knows people love the challenge of PvP!

Blizzard needs to institute real rules, or their PvP servers will be filled with the dregs of the MMO society, not even taking into account the lackwits of battle.net...No skin off my teeth, of course, even if they don't.

Bliz wouldn't have botting...at least not the "leave the bot at the PK and go off into the frontier" botting.

[Squink]

I'm not a PVP player, I really don't do well at it, and then I get angry cause I die so much then I end up resenting the game and quitting.

Soooo, I was just pointing out the first thing that came across my mind when you presented your idea. I saw the 8 level limit, but from my PVE (PVP flag) experiences at least in WoW, I've seen how much difference just one heal in a 1v1 fight can make. When that first heal can come from an invulnerable (at least till after the heal lands) player, at which point the fight then becomes 2v1, you got yourself potential problems.

But maybe "real" pvp works differently and I'm talking out my ass. Personally the PVP server won't ever see any use by me.

[Froofy-D]

Level limits on PVP are unrealistic and exploitable.

BTW, "The Bot Problem" is an excuse people use in DAOC for losing. All bots do is add an extra buff or 2 you probably would have gotten anyway. The bot is just as likely to be on your team as the other.

IMHO the only "fair fight" on a PVP server is a 1v1 duel. Any other time, unless you are a dumbass and/or enjoy losing, it is a good idea to make sure the odds are in your favor. Greater numbers or greater levels are both ways to do it. Basically, it is in the best interest of winning that the fight not be fair.

Anyway, to lessen the number of people crying about the "mean level 50's ganking us" - why don't they just make some XP areas where its really tough for the other team to get there? Like lots of high level guards around or something like that?

[Samus Aran]

Originally posted by Froofy-D
Level limits on PVP are unrealistic and exploitable.

Make the level limits fairly wide(No idea on hard numbers since they're going ot be adjusting how level factors in pvp), and then make it so that buffing/healing/assisting a pvp flagged person pvp flags you. Tada?

Edit:

Originally posted by Froofy-D
Anyway, to lessen the number of people crying about the "mean level 50's ganking us" - why don't they just make some XP areas where its really tough for the other team to get there? Like lots of high level guards around or something like that?

Guards appear to be pushovers at the moment, which is too bad.. As for the exp areas, the biggest ganking problem exists in Hillsbrad Hills. That's the only level 20-25 option for the horde. Oh, and by the way, there's level 40 or so quests for Alliance there. Oh my!

[Rimidal]

haha awesome
I wasn't thinking of playing WoW but if you can grief people like in L2 then that will be fucken awesome

highlight of my L2 career was about a week before beta finished I just went to human island and slaughtered newbies over and over and over
it was best when you just saw them ding and as you run up to them to kill them you say "grats on level" and as their corpse looks at you going "wtf" you say oops sorry, wrong button

but yea, lol at blizzard if they think any kind of 'reward' to encourage equal level pvp will prevent thousand of people griefing the hell out of people 20-40 levels below them solely because other people's misery = quality entertainment

gg blizzard

[Ailu]

Originally posted by Froofy-D
BTW, "The Bot Problem" is an excuse people use in DAOC for losing. All bots do is add an extra buff or 2 you probably would have gotten anyway. The bot is just as likely to be on your team as the other.

Have you even played DAoC at all? I never RvR'd without at least two bots for my group (and we usually had 3-4 bots to cover both specs and bases) since the difference between the buffs of a MoA bot and your regular cleric was, and still is, often the difference between winning and losing when facing a skilled group. Not to mention you don't lose your buffs if your cleric goes down which often lets you come out on top even if you had a bad start.

[Szlia]

If they do not want to prevent attacking people much lower in PvP, they better punish it harshly in some way, not only reward those that enage people around their level.

[BanquozGhost]

So many people characterize WoW as an evolutionary step in MMORPG's, not revolutionary. And yet people expect them to produce a workable MMORPG based PvP model, which would be nothing short of a miracle.