EQ2 sucks. WOW is going to blow it away. fuck SOE?

[Ritkhan]

That's pretty much the gist of things on this board (which i must say has turned to dog shit ever since it has become unmoderated and FoH and Furor have pretty much abandoned it.)

You do realize that the EQ2 team is different from the EQ team which is different from the SWG team. The upper management also has nothing to do with how the game looks or functions. Their instructions are pretty much "make a fun game". I think too many of you have this conspiracy theory about SOE having Satan as their CEO doing everything possible to cheat it's potential customers while Blizzard has Jesus as their CEO.

Do you also realise the EQ was a game that lasted 5 years with no such foresight in it's design? While the EQ2 team is planning their game exactly for long term viability. Is WoW going to last 5 years? Or 5 months like AC2? they are basically one in the same in terms of gameplay and design.

Have you people actually read the complaints on WoW? I am willing to bet with anyone that the majority of FoH members will NOT be playing WoW upon release and i would not be surprised if a lot of them end up finding EQ2 to be more appealing and better suited to their playstyle. Have you read Kreugans WoW posts on the blizzard board? Doesnt sound like a game anyone that is a long time reader of fohguild.org and noows.com would want to play. It's basically AC2 with Warcraft models. A game that you play for 1 month, finish it then pack it away.

The issues with WoW aren’t small bugs that they can fix in Beta. They’re fundamental game design issues that would require 1/2 the game to be redesigned.

Fuck the graphics! In the end the gameplay is going to make or break either game. Which one are you putting your money on?

for those of you (like me) that dont like to sifter through 10000 pages of forum bullshit. Check this out. Very informative posts on EQ2 from Moorgard. This is what i read (yes every damned post) and based my interest in EQ on. It might interest some of you who wish to base your opinions on something more than ignorance.
http://eqii.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?...7a275b87d7cdb5

[mangina]

I just posted this on another thread in which people tried to bash eq2 for retarded reasons. I'll quote myself:

Originally posted by mangina
90% of the people on these boards cannot think for themselves. They rely on the 10% to think for them. It's funny to read the posts from wishy-washy people and how they so easily change their mind if they see 2 or 3 positive things in a row about a game, then change their mind again if they see 2 or 3 negative things in a row.

Learn this from Tool: Think for yourself, question authority.

[Ham n Cheese]

It's not just like this when it comes to games. If a thread starts out and two or three people call it gay off the bat then 90%+ of the responses will be similar. But, if someone starts it off with a real answer and the next couple of people follow with real responses, wham you have yourself a "discussion".

[A Lizard]

Well, the recent discussion on EQ2 textures was ironically turned into a WoW comparison by the sony fans rather than the blizzard kids.

[softwillow]

Whether you agree or disagree with the posts people make, your thread on the subject is pointless: you aren't stating anything that people don't already know. So a lot of people here don't have high hopes for EQ2... why does this bother you? What difference does it make to you whether they like it or not?

Rather then stating a very broad and obvious observation, why don't you write a post (with supporting evidence) on the merits of each game and see if people will discuss it?

[Zignor]

I've played WoW. I've never played EQ2.

Right now I'm leaning towards WoW because what little I've seen of the game I did like quite a bit, though there are problems. It's nowhere near the EQ-killing juggernaught that the hype monster is attempting to promise, although I wouldn't doubt if it does do a better job of pulling over current EQ players than any other game has to date.

I agree that there are many small, fixable issues, but that there are also some fundamental gameplay problems. I know from experience in several betas of the past that the latter never gets solved before release, if ever. That's a worry.

EQ2, on the other hand, I have no experience with. What I've read about the game hasn't thrilled me, though. What's holding my interest currently are the graphics, which I think are by and large far more impressive than any other MMORPG currently in release or beta. If good gameplay follows suit, I'd probably lean that way. If it's just a pretty face with uninteresting substance, I'll pass.

I'm still betting on Vanguard as being the next big MMORPG to beat, over both WoW and EQ2. Just about all of my favorite EQ memories are thanks to its development team. Of course, there's plenty of time to completely fuck it up yet. We shall see.

[Ritkhan]

Originally posted by softwillow
Whether you agree or disagree with the posts people make, your thread on the subject is pointless: you aren't stating anything that people don't already know. So a lot of people here don't have high hopes for EQ2... why does this bother you? What difference does it make to you whether they like it or not?

Rather then stating a very broad and obvious observation, why don't you write a post (with supporting evidence) on the merits of each game and see if people will discuss it?

well i did post a link to the Moogard index which took me 3 days to read. So i dont think im going to write a novel on EQ2 when all the info is already there. I'm also not Rainman and cannot remember specific quotes and references from 500 pages of quick reading. I can tell you the points about EQ2 that i do like over WoW (I realize the games are not out yet but the fundamentals of these games will not change in the next 4-5 months)

Archetype System over WoWs tree/skill system. A fixed branched class system works better than skill tree systems IMO. This is from experience. It leads to more diversity down the road if you are locked into a specific class.

Raids/ End game/Instancing etc. It seems EQ2 is doing this a little better than WoW. WOW, like AC2 seems to be built around the principal that everyone should be able to max their level quickly then fill their time with endless PVP. No thanks. Not for me. EQ2 has an endgame planed in the tradition of EQ. Something that will last a long time and challenge the playerbase. Instancing seems well thought out unlike the generic instancing found in WoW. WoW instanced dungeons are very similar to the Vault dungeons in AC2. Not much of a challenge, easy to complete, do them once and you never do them again.

Items and loot. EQ2 realizes that the success of EQ had a lot to do with the fact that it was very item centric. Items are important. Getting a piece of uber loot makes you feel special (at least it did during Velious when the game was still good). They realize this and wont fuck it up to cater to casual games like WoW is doing. WOW loot mimics AC2 loot in the fact that nothing stands out. You don’t have players drooling over Jaelen’s Katana like in EQ. You have generic shit with various stats. The good stuff is the same as the shit stuff but with better “uber” stats. How boring. If you kill a high end dragon you want to get some piece of loot people will be sucking your dick just to look at. EQ2 acknowledges this.

Their Artisan crafting system sounds awesome. Any class can be an artisan. But it is like leveling a separate class. So to max out as an artisan and a warrior it will be like leveling two characters. This is very well thought out. It is better to have one character like this since it adds more content artificially. They realize most people will just make alt character artisans anyways to function as crafting whores so they realized it is better to do it this way instead of having a separate artisan class. It adds another level of customization to your character. They also insist crafting will be more than repetitive combining of items. It will be based on gameplay and skill just like adventuring. Even though I am an adventurer and never took and interest in crafting in any MMORPG I have played, I am interested in how they are going to do this.

Soloing/grouping balance, death system, guilds, economy, combat, loot, quests Zones are all areas I prefer EQ2 over WoW.

Some people don’t even realist the Item decay is no longer in the game in the traditional sense. It occurs only during death as a money sink. EQ has very very smart money sinks in place that will help the game in the long run (Guild fees etc.). They have a very well thought out game for the long term. I believe this game is going in the right direction.

seriously though, read the moorgard index and find out for yourself. There are many cool things in EQ2 that are detailed in there. They are listening to the smart people as hard as it might seems and telling idiots like the bnet morons to fuck off. WOW seemes to be listening to anyone. Even the idiots. Big mistake

[Bizanich]

Horizons had some kickass documentation that predicted it would be cool, too.

It wasn't. It sucked horribly.

Why are you writing books about EQ2 when it's so far away?

WoW's Beta isn't even up to their levelcap yet, and the Hero classes aren't in yet, OR the Raids/endgame yet, either.

So, in essence, you are ranting and railing about VAPOR.

[Mippo]

You can tell based on current design, where the game is heading. If the foundation is crap, which it is in WoW, the end game will also be crap and we don't have to see it to know this.

With drinking, healers have *unlimited* mana. You can't design raids around *unlimited* mana. The raid design is, how do we stop them from drinking, and the player goal is, how do we drink. A good priest which controls his agro, can trivialize any content in the game right now. Anything, there is not a single challenging encounter in all of World of Warcraft right now. We've been through *50* levels.

It's fun, it's just not something you will be playing for 6 months. WoW is a game everyone is going to play through once, then quit. It's also setup for you to consume content at an accelerated rate so people will go through it quite quickly to.

The population of the servers in Beta, were likely removed from their website because of how many people are quitting a *free* game. Between phase 2 and 3, over half the beta population quit. That's not a sign of a good game. WoW is essentially a single player game, that they are trying to pass off poorly as an MMORPG. The end result is that it is a very fun game that people will play once, and put down. The game in its current state just won't last.

[Ritkhan]

i really want to see mass amounts of raids and endgame WOW will miraculously pull out of its ass before release. If they do it then good. That's what they are lacking and that's what they need.

Vapor? Yeah maybe with Horizons. Calling EQ2 info Vapor is just retarded. Youre comparing the hype Horizons had 3 years before release to solid EQ2 info months before release? What matters is core game design, not little details that can be tweaked. Might some of the info that is out on EQ2 change before release? Yes. Will the whole game design change? No.

[Samus Aran]

I've lost a lot of interest in WoW, and haven't been keeping up... so could you post just WHY it might not last very long? And could you also link Kreugan's post on the WoW boards? Pretty please with sugar on top.

[Deathwing]

Originally posted by Ritkhan
The upper management also has nothing to do with how the game looks or functions.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

I'm sorry, after such a stupid statement like that, I can't take any of the filth that comes out of your mouth seriously. And your previous sig sucked too.

And mippo, go back to the b.net forums, we don't want your kind here. We know you don't like drinking....IT'S A FUCKING BETA, MEANT FOR FUCKING TESTING.

Anyway, people here are jaded by SOE, haven't liked what they've seen in EQ2, and have actually gotten to play WoW(well, most at least...not me). So fucking what if they throw their support in with WoW, what's the big deal? Most of the EQ2 bashing has had support and reasoning. If you want to go talk with people who support the game, go to the SOE forums.

[Ritkhan]

Originally posted by Deathwing
HAHAHAHAHAHA

I'm sorry, after such a stupid statement like that, I can't take any of the filth that comes out of your mouth seriously. And your previous sig sucked too.

And mippo, go back to the b.net forums, we don't want your kind here. We know you don't like drinking....IT'S A FUCKING BETA, MEANT FOR FUCKING TESTING.

Anyway, people here are jaded by SOE, haven't liked what they've seen in EQ2, and have actually gotten to play WoW(well, most at least...not me). So fucking what if they throw their support in with WoW, what's the big deal? Most of the EQ2 bashing has had support and reasoning. If you want to go talk with people who support the game, go to the SOE forums.

you have to be the biggest fucking idiot on this forum. You know how SOE is run? How a gaming company works? Do they teach you that while you flip burgers at McDonalds? I work for big Oil and Gas companies. Guess what? Their primary goals arent to destroy the environment at any cost as long as they make money. That's just idiotic simple minded thinking. If you think SOE has some evil motive behind everything they do you need to wake up to reality and not the fantasy conspiracy world you live in

Most of the EQ2 bashing has had support and reasoning

What reasoning would that be? SOE sucks?? Moron.

If you want to go talk with people who support the game, go to the SOE forums

Sorry i did not realize these were the Blizzard forums. Isnt it past your bed time child?

[Nebuchadnezzar]

so you went with the ad hominems, eh?

I'd like to see Kreug's posts too if someone can link...

[Sean]

Originally posted by Mippo

The population of the servers in Beta, were likely removed from their website because of how many people are quitting a *free* game. Between phase 2 and 3, over half the beta population quit.

Between 2 and 3 half the "Beta" server population moved to the PVP server. There's currently 1900/1500 people online at 2 PST. 3400 people. You know, I never remember there being 6800 people online... *maybe* a little under 4k at most.

You're a nincompoop.