Question for people that played multiple mmorpg's

Cathan · 04-05-2004, 07:12 PM

I was readin the thread about all the flaws in eq and it occurred to me to ask if that shit is normal in most mmorpg's (daoc, sb, uo, etc etc). I mean do other games release unfinished or untuned content, give us 100 hour key quests, have server login issues for days where if you make it in within an hour you're doin good, constantly put code live that fubars shit royally like the dx9 patch did with collisions and video card issues and on and on and on....

I really wanted to list the things eq did over the years that just pissed us all the fuck off and I've only mentioned a few really. Again one more time though. Is that shit standard in other mmorpg's that are out there? Are newer mmorpg's getting better at not making the same mistakes?

I doubt it because I have a little faith in blizzard and I'm hopeful but IF WoW does the same shit I can't say I'm going to play for very long. I don't mean to say that come release if it doesn't go perfectly smooth I'm headed for the door, or even if they make an occasional mistake but if every other patch bards are broken (I know there aren't bards in WoW), or really obvious things that should have been tested properly happen continuously I am gonna hit the cancel button with a quickness.

If someone would have told me over the last 5 years "Dude you HAVE to play this game because it BLOWS eq away. It's everything eq is that's fun, and nothing like tha suck that eq can be." I would have been history. Unfortunately it just hasn't fukn happened though. I think EQ would have died a LONG time ago if some other game would have been at the very least equal in gameplay but not had the problems I stated in the first paragraph.

Sorry ranting now and rambling so can anyone answer if other companies do the same stuff eq does to the playerbase or can I hope for better?

I've quit eq and came back a few times mostly because after you try out 10 other games on your break from eq you startin gettin the eq itch again. You start thinkin man it'd be cool to say hello to my friends, see what's up, damn that ability looks cool and man that mob sounds like it'd be fun to kill and next thing ya know you're 2 points from 220 tailoring raiding everyday and sitting at the login screen for an hour readin a book hoping you get lucky and make it in!!! It's like alcoholism I just HAVE TO GAME!!!! But if there was a better game.... that I could have fun in and not feel like I HAD to be online til 3 am to get that ph4t l3w7 when I could have gotten it from some quest I did gradually or while I was raidin some cool instanced dungeon when my friends logged on.....

Well least I can dream, until then I'm 219 tailoring and I MUST HAVE THE LAST SACRED WATER!!!!!! I WILL AID YOU GRIMEL!!!!!

Cathan

Warrik · 04-05-2004, 07:21 PM

With each new MMORPG i have played post EQ there have been some geat strides made to address some issues plaguing the first gen of the genre.

As mentioned before in the the WoW threads....WoW isnt innovative as much as it is a fun as hell game that really addressed many of the flaws in the previous games.

Daoc had some fantastic ideas as did Asherons Call 2 and Anarchy Online. But like an Autistic whos a math genious, at the end of the day they were still just retarded.

Visions · 04-05-2004, 08:24 PM

Well if your main problem with EQ was the unfinished releases and server stability as it seems from your post I'd recomend trying FFXI. I don't really like it but it is defenitly the best MMOG in terms of stability and bug free gameplay. I'd rather not write a reveiw on FFXI but while its stable and smooth it defenitly has big flaws IMO with the way the game plays but a lot of those same problems are in eq as well so if your only real complaint about eq is the stability and unfinished content I think you would enjoy FFXI.

Northerner · 04-05-2004, 08:25 PM

Not really sure about the newer games (I TW betaed Lin2 but that's about it for even moderately recent games) but the older crop (EQ, AC2, AO, DAoC etc) all had major flaws. The devs tended to fall into the categories of clueless, uncaring/invisible, antagonistic or plain incompetant.

EQ still stands out for me as it has all the bad traits but occasionally one would notice true gems of development. There *is* some damn good stuff in EQ, it's just engulfed in a sea of shit at times. Most of the other games might have had a cute idea here and there but fell so far short in some critical areas that I never lasted past hitting the level cap. Additionally, and ironically, EQ also seems to have attracted a good number of pretty smart gamers. That goes miles when you are looking for people to spend time with online.

Of course, an OLG is all about community in the end and I've far more time invested in EQ than anywhere else so I am certainly biased. With some fortune some of that can be taken to WoW or Vanguard in due course though and I won't shed a tear for EQ when I finally do leave.

JazyaVechette · 04-05-2004, 11:12 PM

Graphics and Features are what the Marketing Department uses to help sell a game.

Community and Content are what keeps you coming back.

What's a game besides just a GUI to that community and content after all? How many of us have left for the 'next best thing' but came back to EQ?

Early EQ had both, amongst a 'sea of problems' but you know what, those problems helped to create the community. IMO, current EQ is focusing on Features over Content at the moment.

I guess that makes me a Verant/McQuaid fanboi.

Tatiana · 04-07-2004, 02:54 AM

If you want to make a good choice when buying a mmorpg, just play the open beta. If you see major flaws, being broken or lacking conent, bad net code, bad game play. Just dont buy the game.

Whatever the devs will tell you at that moment to make you buy the game you need to know that you will not see improvements before at least 6 months after release.

Onnatop · 04-07-2004, 07:45 AM

I remember UO having server downs nightly for backup, but that was just the way things worked with that game. They'd have bug patches that would take longer, and it sucked. Asheron's Call had monthly content patches and they had a running anthem "Don't play patch day", which was just plain good advice. ShadowBane, honestly, I didn't stay around long enough to see their patch method and stability because, well, the game was kinda boring. I do remember getting credited for quite a few days of gameplay due to downtime, though.

I guess to answer your question, yes, other games have these same kinds of problems. They have improved slightly as time goes by. I expect WoW to have problems as well, but at the same time I expect there to be less than average.

Lenardo · 04-07-2004, 07:50 AM

the problem with most recent releases has been that they were essentially pay to play open beta periods.

SWG - horrible horrible game balance and alot of nerfs post release, alot of professions not working, no "content" to speak of all addressed...in the first 6 months of pay to play

horizons- just say EWWW - tons of content missing, tons of class nerfing, etc...
again all being address POST release

EQ2 SEEMS TO and WoW IS apparently taking care of these issues pre release - which is what we all want to see.

Nar · 04-07-2004, 08:01 AM

Personally, my biggest problem with the most recent games is the way exp works. After having played EQ, I was absolutely sick of the "grind". I did not really want to dump so much time into developing a character, I wanted to get to the "real game".
Shadowbane came around and leveling was so rediculously easy that everyone was high level within a couple weeks. Had a bad rep? Just make a new character, nothing lost really.
I think WoW is going to hit it right on the head though, at least from what I have read..I dont care if exping takes forever, if it doesnt feel like grinding, I'm happy.

Nar · 04-07-2004, 08:02 AM

UO server downs for backup rocked...because for a while before the server went down, it didnt matter what you did..it would not be saved. Needless to say, it was fucking ON.

Cathan · 04-07-2004, 09:28 AM

I like the idea of having my account prorated money for excessive downtime. Honestly.... If I ran a big game company like SOE this would motivate me and my employees to release quality content that was properly tested and make damn sure downtime was minimized. That should be the FUNDAMENTAL rule of EVERY game. If people are paying you to play you sure as hell should have the game up 99.5% of the time. Maybe that's not completely realistic but 98% is the absolute least I expect. Anything short of the entire internet going down or some major backbone somewhere are the only reasons I would see the game company not responsible. If a game company hires someone else to keep their servers up then they are still at fault for choosing a shitty company to do business with. If I can't blame traffic for being late to school because my tax money isn't providing large enough roads for me to get to class on time I don't get any slack from my teachers so why should I give a game company slack for shotty service...

The first game with all the things that make a game good that says they will reimburse me for downtime over a certain acceptable amount I will for sure give them a try.

Cathan

Nar · 04-07-2004, 09:33 AM

Why? No other company does this.

Fammaden · 04-07-2004, 10:03 AM

I want my 12.5 cents back from last month's unexpected six hour server downtime damnit!

Cathan · 04-07-2004, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fammaden
I want my 12.5 cents back from last month's unexpected six hour server downtime damnit!

It's not about the money to me you dim fuck. The total subscription fee to myself I could give a shit about. What it's about and why a lot of others just read what I said and didn't reply is the money it amounts to when you multiply it times 400,000 subscribers.

1n gr4d3 sk001 th3y t4ught j00 l337 mu1t1pl1c4t10n 5k1ll5!!!!!
or at least they should have. I guess you were another one of those kids that couldn't do basic word problems either.... Don't fret though, Mcdonald's will always have a job for you in the back. And just maybe if you try really really hard you MIGHT get to work a REGISTER One day!!!! ooo ooooooo.

Cathan

Bizanich · 04-07-2004, 01:39 PM

That's why it'll never happen, Cathan. Server downtime is unavoidable in games like these. Double that with people wanting their fees prorated due to just them being unable to connect, lets say due to a router or something the company can't help, leads giving that small amount of money back a ludicrous idea.

It will never be a standard and shouldn't be expected to be.

04-05-2004, 07:12 PM	#1 (permalink)
Cathan Pope of the Cathan Throng! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: N.C. yes we're all inbred rednecks Posts: 949	Question for people that played multiple mmorpg's I was readin the thread about all the flaws in eq and it occurred to me to ask if that shit is normal in most mmorpg's (daoc, sb, uo, etc etc). I mean do other games release unfinished or untuned content, give us 100 hour key quests, have server login issues for days where if you make it in within an hour you're doin good, constantly put code live that fubars shit royally like the dx9 patch did with collisions and video card issues and on and on and on.... I really wanted to list the things eq did over the years that just pissed us all the fuck off and I've only mentioned a few really. Again one more time though. Is that shit standard in other mmorpg's that are out there? Are newer mmorpg's getting better at not making the same mistakes? I doubt it because I have a little faith in blizzard and I'm hopeful but IF WoW does the same shit I can't say I'm going to play for very long. I don't mean to say that come release if it doesn't go perfectly smooth I'm headed for the door, or even if they make an occasional mistake but if every other patch bards are broken (I know there aren't bards in WoW), or really obvious things that should have been tested properly happen continuously I am gonna hit the cancel button with a quickness. If someone would have told me over the last 5 years "Dude you HAVE to play this game because it BLOWS eq away. It's everything eq is that's fun, and nothing like tha suck that eq can be." I would have been history. Unfortunately it just hasn't fukn happened though. I think EQ would have died a LONG time ago if some other game would have been at the very least equal in gameplay but not had the problems I stated in the first paragraph. Sorry ranting now and rambling so can anyone answer if other companies do the same stuff eq does to the playerbase or can I hope for better? I've quit eq and came back a few times mostly because after you try out 10 other games on your break from eq you startin gettin the eq itch again. You start thinkin man it'd be cool to say hello to my friends, see what's up, damn that ability looks cool and man that mob sounds like it'd be fun to kill and next thing ya know you're 2 points from 220 tailoring raiding everyday and sitting at the login screen for an hour readin a book hoping you get lucky and make it in!!! It's like alcoholism I just HAVE TO GAME!!!! But if there was a better game.... that I could have fun in and not feel like I HAD to be online til 3 am to get that ph4t l3w7 when I could have gotten it from some quest I did gradually or while I was raidin some cool instanced dungeon when my friends logged on..... Well least I can dream, until then I'm 219 tailoring and I MUST HAVE THE LAST SACRED WATER!!!!!! I WILL AID YOU GRIMEL!!!!! Cathan

04-05-2004, 11:12 PM	#5 (permalink)
JazyaVechette Amazon Bitch Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 25 -1 Internets	Community and Content Graphics and Features are what the Marketing Department uses to help sell a game. Community and Content are what keeps you coming back. What's a game besides just a GUI to that community and content after all? How many of us have left for the 'next best thing' but came back to EQ? Early EQ had both, amongst a 'sea of problems' but you know what, those problems helped to create the community. IMO, current EQ is focusing on Features over Content at the moment. I guess that makes me a Verant/McQuaid fanboi. __________________ Your Sister in Arms, Jazya Vechette Deceiver of Ayonae Ro Profile \| Email

04-07-2004, 09:28 AM	#11 (permalink)
Cathan Pope of the Cathan Throng! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: N.C. yes we're all inbred rednecks Posts: 949	prorating accounts for downtime I like the idea of having my account prorated money for excessive downtime. Honestly.... If I ran a big game company like SOE this would motivate me and my employees to release quality content that was properly tested and make damn sure downtime was minimized. That should be the FUNDAMENTAL rule of EVERY game. If people are paying you to play you sure as hell should have the game up 99.5% of the time. Maybe that's not completely realistic but 98% is the absolute least I expect. Anything short of the entire internet going down or some major backbone somewhere are the only reasons I would see the game company not responsible. If a game company hires someone else to keep their servers up then they are still at fault for choosing a shitty company to do business with. If I can't blame traffic for being late to school because my tax money isn't providing large enough roads for me to get to class on time I don't get any slack from my teachers so why should I give a game company slack for shotty service... The first game with all the things that make a game good that says they will reimburse me for downtime over a certain acceptable amount I will for sure give them a try. Cathan

04-07-2004, 10:03 AM	#13 (permalink)
Fammaden Treats objects like women. Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Posts: 2,561 +2 Internets	I want my 12.5 cents back from last month's unexpected six hour server downtime damnit! __________________ Fammaden - Wizard - Saryrn (Retired) WoW: Shaman/Mage/Hunter/Paladin Last edited by Fammaden : 04-07-2004 at 10:18 AM.

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04-05-2004, 07:21 PM	#2 (permalink)
Warrik Ive been reading these boards since noows....that makes me uber Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 2,086 -3 Internets	With each new MMORPG i have played post EQ there have been some geat strides made to address some issues plaguing the first gen of the genre. As mentioned before in the the WoW threads....WoW isnt innovative as much as it is a fun as hell game that really addressed many of the flaws in the previous games. Daoc had some fantastic ideas as did Asherons Call 2 and Anarchy Online. But like an Autistic whos a math genious, at the end of the day they were still just retarded.

04-05-2004, 08:24 PM	#3 (permalink)
Visions Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 47 +0 Internets	Well if your main problem with EQ was the unfinished releases and server stability as it seems from your post I'd recomend trying FFXI. I don't really like it but it is defenitly the best MMOG in terms of stability and bug free gameplay. I'd rather not write a reveiw on FFXI but while its stable and smooth it defenitly has big flaws IMO with the way the game plays but a lot of those same problems are in eq as well so if your only real complaint about eq is the stability and unfinished content I think you would enjoy FFXI.

04-05-2004, 08:25 PM	#4 (permalink)
Northerner Shiny Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Calgary Posts: 936 -12 Internets	Not really sure about the newer games (I TW betaed Lin2 but that's about it for even moderately recent games) but the older crop (EQ, AC2, AO, DAoC etc) all had major flaws. The devs tended to fall into the categories of clueless, uncaring/invisible, antagonistic or plain incompetant. EQ still stands out for me as it has all the bad traits but occasionally one would notice true gems of development. There is some damn good stuff in EQ, it's just engulfed in a sea of shit at times. Most of the other games might have had a cute idea here and there but fell so far short in some critical areas that I never lasted past hitting the level cap. Additionally, and ironically, EQ also seems to have attracted a good number of pretty smart gamers. That goes miles when you are looking for people to spend time with online. Of course, an OLG is all about community in the end and I've far more time invested in EQ than anywhere else so I am certainly biased. With some fortune some of that can be taken to WoW or Vanguard in due course though and I won't shed a tear for EQ when I finally do leave.

04-07-2004, 02:54 AM	#6 (permalink)
Tatiana Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 37 -1 Internets	If you want to make a good choice when buying a mmorpg, just play the open beta. If you see major flaws, being broken or lacking conent, bad net code, bad game play. Just dont buy the game. Whatever the devs will tell you at that moment to make you buy the game you need to know that you will not see improvements before at least 6 months after release.

04-07-2004, 07:45 AM	#7 (permalink)
Onnatop Fires of Heaven Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Redmond, WA Posts: 150 +0 Internets	I remember UO having server downs nightly for backup, but that was just the way things worked with that game. They'd have bug patches that would take longer, and it sucked. Asheron's Call had monthly content patches and they had a running anthem "Don't play patch day", which was just plain good advice. ShadowBane, honestly, I didn't stay around long enough to see their patch method and stability because, well, the game was kinda boring. I do remember getting credited for quite a few days of gameplay due to downtime, though. I guess to answer your question, yes, other games have these same kinds of problems. They have improved slightly as time goes by. I expect WoW to have problems as well, but at the same time I expect there to be less than average.

04-07-2004, 07:50 AM	#8 (permalink)
Lenardo Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 2,215 -4 Internets	the problem with most recent releases has been that they were essentially pay to play open beta periods. SWG - horrible horrible game balance and alot of nerfs post release, alot of professions not working, no "content" to speak of all addressed...in the first 6 months of pay to play horizons- just say EWWW - tons of content missing, tons of class nerfing, etc... again all being address POST release EQ2 SEEMS TO and WoW IS apparently taking care of these issues pre release - which is what we all want to see.

04-07-2004, 08:01 AM	#9 (permalink)
Nar Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Not in Warhammer Online. Dammit. Posts: 582 -1 Internets	Personally, my biggest problem with the most recent games is the way exp works. After having played EQ, I was absolutely sick of the "grind". I did not really want to dump so much time into developing a character, I wanted to get to the "real game". Shadowbane came around and leveling was so rediculously easy that everyone was high level within a couple weeks. Had a bad rep? Just make a new character, nothing lost really. I think WoW is going to hit it right on the head though, at least from what I have read..I dont care if exping takes forever, if it doesnt feel like grinding, I'm happy.

04-07-2004, 08:02 AM	#10 (permalink)
Nar Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Not in Warhammer Online. Dammit. Posts: 582 -1 Internets	UO server downs for backup rocked...because for a while before the server went down, it didnt matter what you did..it would not be saved. Needless to say, it was fucking ON.

04-07-2004, 09:33 AM	#12 (permalink)
Nar Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Not in Warhammer Online. Dammit. Posts: 582 -1 Internets	Why? No other company does this.

04-07-2004, 01:39 PM	#15 (permalink)
Bizanich Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 2,476 +2 Internets	That's why it'll never happen, Cathan. Server downtime is unavoidable in games like these. Double that with people wanting their fees prorated due to just them being unable to connect, lets say due to a router or something the company can't help, leads giving that small amount of money back a ludicrous idea. It will never be a standard and shouldn't be expected to be.