Dumbing WoW down even more than the dev's can - Page 3

Sithray · 03-31-2004, 04:51 PM

I think everyone and there mother who knew how used an auto buff bot on a second box, or even a script for a cheal rotation. Xylobot was good for cheal rotations.

All blizzard is doing is letting the inevitable happen with permission.

Fizbenx · 03-31-2004, 05:45 PM

I remember initially reading that you could set up a script to forage / mine for tradeskill items. I'm not real thrilled with the idea of fighting over resources with 25 (sp) macro'd people who are taking a nap. Speeding up tradeskilling itself (ie being able to summon a stack of enchanted plat bars, rather than summon one at a time for a total of 50 stacks) sounds great, or being able to combine and make 20 of the same ring at once would be cool. I just hope it never gets out of hand.

I guess I'm just worried about this this little dandy I saw yesterday.

Quote:

What happened to "unit smarts"? My hero will stand around and take a beating if something starts attacking him. Couldn't he at least automatically fight back (without skills))? Sadly a common problem in MMOs. Maybe I'll just hack it into my Lua.

Israi · 03-31-2004, 06:08 PM

Having played a shaman for just about all of my EQ Career, I fully welcome auto cast buffing.

Why do i need to baby sit spells like avatar or haste when it can just auto cast it for me?

Shinrai · 03-31-2004, 06:34 PM

Is harvesting even macro-able? They're free at any point to make abilities impossible to macro by enforcing some interaction. Looks to me like that's part of the point with fishing.

I hope they'll include a buff-refresh script of some sort. The point of the short buffs is clearly to make it impossible to rely on purchased buffs, not to make that players gaming a repetitive chore.

In any case macro'ing is not really a problem. Macro'ing is a symptom that some part of your game is simplistic and repetitive. If a script can play it then a real player would probably be bored.

Star8urst · 03-31-2004, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Having played a shaman for just about all of my EQ Career, I fully welcome auto cast buffing.

Why do i need to baby sit spells like avatar or haste when it can just auto cast it for me?

Why do you play a shaman? There is a reason why spells have short duration, it help differentiate good players from bad ones. In the old days you could tell a good enchanter from a bad one, or a shaman or any other support class. Why do bards have to twist song instead of just buy a skill that will let them play 2 or 3 or songs simultaniously?

Because a good player can deal with keeping buffs up on the group and also do other things (CC, nukes, dots) and don't go OOM at the same time. A bad player can not do this. Even in a RPG where your character skills determine the success of your actions, there needs way to differentiate skilled player from retards. If you can autobuff your buffs, what is the point of having them in the game? Just give everyone a control pannel with all the buffs in the game and let them click them on or off, it would be the same thing.

Long duration buffs just cheapens a class, just ask all the enchanters in EQ. If soloing in WoW is as good as it seems, with long duration buffs people would be encouraged even more to solo. I think a line need to be drawn between tedious and skill. Buff casting requires skill, making 10 potions in a row does not. So only enhance things that should be enhanced.

Szlia · 03-31-2004, 06:45 PM

Some things are made tedious on purpose as a balancing factor, as a way to seperate the people willing to endure the tedium and those that are not. So having a macro program that eliminates this tedium is without a doubt an exploit.

If you design some tedious tasks and allow people to macro them, you better ask yourself why you designed them tedious in the first place...

Digo · 03-31-2004, 07:38 PM

Call me snobbish, old-school, or ancient, but I don't like the idea of auto-buffing.

I played a shaman my whole EQ career and took no small amount of pride in being known as "fucking good" because I kept my groups buffed at all times, FA'd, Q'd, regened, and just about everything else.

I don't care if it cuts down on repetitive shit like that, but I enjoy being known as the guy that can do all the menial shit AND pull off ghetto crowd control, dot, ad hoc buff, debuff, and spot heal.

I never got a time's antithesis, either.

Israi · 03-31-2004, 08:32 PM

Waiting for Avatar to repop every minute took real skill..

Haalen · 03-31-2004, 09:09 PM

Once you know how to do it, twisting songs does not require skill. "Ooh shit, I can press a key once every 3 seconds in a simple pattern, I am so skilled!" The Skill required in being a bard was knowing what songs to twist when, using those songs correctly, and knowing when you should be using your instrument or not. Battling Carpal Tunnel is a pretty crappy skill.

Digo · 03-31-2004, 11:18 PM

Jesus Christ, it's not a matter of mashing the fucking button, it's just having the brains to remember to do it all, and do it efficiently while multi-tasking (the very definition of the shaman class). Hence the distinction between me and retarded shamans.

tanjo · 04-01-2004, 12:29 AM

I don't think I would label "being able recast buffs right away after they fade" skill. More like just doing a monotonous task. Anyone can do it if they try, but who wants to? That's why everyone wants the movie star job and not the job at the assembly line. This game should be fun.

I have been using escript/cosmos for like 3 weeks and I love it. I use autocast on find minerals and I have autoloot turned on so I don't have to right click on 1-4 item(s) everytime I loot a corpse. It's very nice.

ketsui · 04-01-2004, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Szlia
If you design some tedious tasks and allow people to macro them, you better ask yourself why you designed them tedious in the first place...

Sometimes its unavoidable, like buffing an entire raid.

This belief that rebuffing or twisting songs is a skill is silly, its not, it just limits your ability to talk to others. The skill is in what you choose to cast and when, not rebuffing or repetitive abilities.

Quote:

That's why everyone wants the movie star job and not the job at the assembly line. This game should be fun.

Couldn't agree more.

Ketsui

thorn · 04-01-2004, 08:28 AM

If something is too boring, too mundane... macroing is not the solution. Sure I macroed the fuck out of UO and SWG, but I would rather not see it again.

About Buff times, I really liked DAoC's version better. Most buffs stayed until the buffed logged, died or you died, but they could only cast a set amount (each spell had a certain "concentration" value).

As for crafting, if it leads to carpral tunnel... it's a bad crafting system. That's all there is to it. Once again, macroing is NOT a solution. Speaking generally, as the macros in this program seem to be addented anyway, but I'm sure that if they allow this, they can build me a Skill-up-while-sleeping macro too.

Sure you can get banned for macroing unattended, but seriously... do you expect there to be enough GMs to check that, except in rare cases? Heh, I sure doubt it. Given the nature of Blizzard's fans, they'll be busy watching people speedhacking, duping, radaring, etc etc....

Algol Devilstar · 04-02-2004, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mkopec1
"Your only as good as your macro"

-Future MMOG playah

This was the attitude in Quake TeamFortress as well and it did help people that have bad twitch skills. Not that twitch skills are as necessary in a MMoG

Zurren · 04-02-2004, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mkopec1
Wow, add on programs already being developed for WoW?

Holy shit, this thing is only in Beta1!

This kind of worries me. I firmly believe that there should not be any 2nd party programs allowed at all.

By makin shit easyer/less time intensive ruins the overall game mechanics and should be treated like an exploit.

Just wait untill some real geeks get a hold of the beta or live version of this game. The true cheats will be out in no time.

I hope Blizzard truly think about the use of 2nd party programs this could eventually break the game, ala AC1

its not a 3rd party program, its using the scripting that is part of the UI, no extra programs are needed.

However, I've found that alot of 3rd party programs (that were not designed for the sole purpose of cheating), were created to fill in gaps in the games client. Things like last target/target self/use last item (UO"s UOASssist), or created due to poor game design which made certian tasks more tedious then they needed to be.

I dont see how there is any skill involved in having to remeber every 5 mins "bah dammnit, I gotta buff my group.. AGAIN"

03-31-2004, 04:51 PM	#31 (permalink)
Sithray Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 115 -1 Internets	I think everyone and there mother who knew how used an auto buff bot on a second box, or even a script for a cheal rotation. Xylobot was good for cheal rotations. All blizzard is doing is letting the inevitable happen with permission. __________________ "The stats don't show a lack of popularity for shaman, they just show a ridiculous popularity for other classes." ~ Tharfur, EU-Forum CM http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread....cId=2406108945

03-31-2004, 06:08 PM	#33 (permalink)
Israi Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 62 +0 Internets	well Having played a shaman for just about all of my EQ Career, I fully welcome auto cast buffing. Why do i need to baby sit spells like avatar or haste when it can just auto cast it for me?

03-31-2004, 06:45 PM	#36 (permalink)
Szlia Conquest Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 4,894 +16 Internets	Some things are made tedious on purpose as a balancing factor, as a way to seperate the people willing to endure the tedium and those that are not. So having a macro program that eliminates this tedium is without a doubt an exploit. If you design some tedious tasks and allow people to macro them, you better ask yourself why you designed them tedious in the first place... __________________ -retrosabotage-

03-31-2004, 07:38 PM	#37 (permalink)
Digo Ad Hoc Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,210 +2 Internets	Call me snobbish, old-school, or ancient, but I don't like the idea of auto-buffing. I played a shaman my whole EQ career and took no small amount of pride in being known as "fucking good" because I kept my groups buffed at all times, FA'd, Q'd, regened, and just about everything else. I don't care if it cuts down on repetitive shit like that, but I enjoy being known as the guy that can do all the menial shit AND pull off ghetto crowd control, dot, ad hoc buff, debuff, and spot heal. I never got a time's antithesis, either. __________________ Digo \| Casual

03-31-2004, 08:32 PM	#38 (permalink)
Israi Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 62 +0 Internets	ohh yeah Waiting for Avatar to repop every minute took real skill..

03-31-2004, 06:34 PM	#34 (permalink)
Shinrai Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 617 +0 Internets	Is harvesting even macro-able? They're free at any point to make abilities impossible to macro by enforcing some interaction. Looks to me like that's part of the point with fishing. I hope they'll include a buff-refresh script of some sort. The point of the short buffs is clearly to make it impossible to rely on purchased buffs, not to make that players gaming a repetitive chore. In any case macro'ing is not really a problem. Macro'ing is a symptom that some part of your game is simplistic and repetitive. If a script can play it then a real player would probably be bored.

03-31-2004, 09:09 PM	#39 (permalink)
Haalen Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 491 -2 Internets	Once you know how to do it, twisting songs does not require skill. "Ooh shit, I can press a key once every 3 seconds in a simple pattern, I am so skilled!" The Skill required in being a bard was knowing what songs to twist when, using those songs correctly, and knowing when you should be using your instrument or not. Battling Carpal Tunnel is a pretty crappy skill.

03-31-2004, 11:18 PM	#40 (permalink)
Digo Ad Hoc Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,210 +2 Internets	Jesus Christ, it's not a matter of mashing the fucking button, it's just having the brains to remember to do it all, and do it efficiently while multi-tasking (the very definition of the shaman class). Hence the distinction between me and retarded shamans. __________________ Digo \| Casual

04-01-2004, 12:29 AM	#41 (permalink)
tanjo like a dum whore cripple Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 627 +2 Internets	I don't think I would label "being able recast buffs right away after they fade" skill. More like just doing a monotonous task. Anyone can do it if they try, but who wants to? That's why everyone wants the movie star job and not the job at the assembly line. This game should be fun. I have been using escript/cosmos for like 3 weeks and I love it. I use autocast on find minerals and I have autoloot turned on so I don't have to right click on 1-4 item(s) everytime I loot a corpse. It's very nice.

04-01-2004, 08:28 AM	#43 (permalink)
thorn Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 172 +0 Internets	If something is too boring, too mundane... macroing is not the solution. Sure I macroed the fuck out of UO and SWG, but I would rather not see it again. About Buff times, I really liked DAoC's version better. Most buffs stayed until the buffed logged, died or you died, but they could only cast a set amount (each spell had a certain "concentration" value). As for crafting, if it leads to carpral tunnel... it's a bad crafting system. That's all there is to it. Once again, macroing is NOT a solution. Speaking generally, as the macros in this program seem to be addented anyway, but I'm sure that if they allow this, they can build me a Skill-up-while-sleeping macro too. Sure you can get banned for macroing unattended, but seriously... do you expect there to be enough GMs to check that, except in rare cases? Heh, I sure doubt it. Given the nature of Blizzard's fans, they'll be busy watching people speedhacking, duping, radaring, etc etc....

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