I Believe A Standard Set is Needed

[GaliemVaelant]

...for chat and basic commands in MMOG's. Now, I don't mean anything game defining should always be the same, but simple shit like chat commands and filters.

SWG and FFXI went with /tell {name}, for example, while in L2 you have to type "{name}

WTF?

It should not take new players to a game any longer than 1.5 seconds to figure out basic shit like this. I went two days in L2 before I knew how to send a tell. Sure, a handbook at release will help that, but observance of a basic standard would help even more.

That is just one example, but it's a good enough one to get the idea. I want to be able to log into a MMOG without having to learn how today's new developer has reinvented the wheel on such basic shit that it really shouldn't make a difference if it's all the same.

What I'm posting about this here for is your expert opinion on precisely what those standards should be. Here's what (I believe) is needed. If anything should not be standardized on this list, point it out... If I forgot anything that should, please point that out.

1. ALL chat commands. MMOGs should all have person to person private chat, close range spatial chat, and regional long distance spatial chat (IE shout) at the very least.

2. All MMOG's should offer a quick and easy method either within the GUI or by standardized command to filter any or all channels.

3. The log out command should be standardized, and should always be available by command, not only GUI. Why? What if your mouse freezes?

4. Movement should -NOT- be standardized, but since true 3D is the standard, not that isometric shit like in Diablo, I think we should be able to agree upon a basic set of camera positions, and a standardized way to cycle them.

5. A standard should be set for character limits in chat messages. In L2 you can type what? 3 letters before it cuts you off? In SWG it splits your message into 2 parts on its own, sometimes cutting part off, and in EQ they got it right (IMHO).

I'm no cheenyus, and I'm damn sure no developer (yet), but I still think that after 4 years, 4 months in the genre, I have a fairly decent grasp of the way things should work across the board. The MMOG industry is undoubtedly growing in leaps and bounds, and the setting of and observance of standards is always a boon to advancement in any field... well... as far as I have seen anyway.

The purpose for standards is to make things easier on the player and developer. It means fewer decisions for a developer to make, and it means that players could log into a new game and get moving easier. In very few industries do they reinvent the wheel with every new product, and I think in MMOG's the time has come for them to stop doing that.

[Szlia]

I am ready to bet /help is a standard.

[Squink]

You lose the bet, in ffxi /help makes the mob you are fighting able to be attacked by anyone. The real help command that tells you about other commands is: /?

i.e. /? help

tells you what help does, optional parameters, etc

payment accepted by money order only on your lost bet

[Tuco]

I went two days in L2 before I knew how to send a tell.

You can send tells in L2?

Having played the L2 beta a while ago, I understand GaliemVaelant and understand where he is coming from.

Many of the things are standardized, and are just part of 'good interface controls' now. Things like WASD are standard(was Halflife the first to use wasd? I remember doom being arrow keys etc, but there could be a fps before HL that used WASD)

I've always been a supporter of customization. Allowing the player to change stuff gives power to the user, who can make the game better for him, personally. I know my UI in Everquest was radically different from anyone else, so it'd be a terrible UI for default, but for customizations sake it's good.

In WoW the UI / controls are so flexible that in Alpha, people were able to make an ingame thing to play Tic-Tac-Toe with each other.

With things like standardization, it helps people only until they learn the new system, having /? instead of /help makes little difference a week after the person learns that it is, in fact, /?.

In WoW, I heard Blizzard is having /msg, /whisper, and /tell performing the same function. This is a good move in my mind.

In my opinion, every game developer should just copy Everquest's UI/controls/etc, it's very good =D

(Oh, and make every game allow first person view =)

[GaliemVaelant]

(Oh, and make every game allow first person view =)

YES! Many devs underestimate the power of the first person view 8)

Also, let me point out that not all games even have a /help or /?

From what I have seen, L2 has neither, and also no way to bring up a command list. Perhaps that'll change with the box version.

Standardization is no new thing in games, as the above poster pointed out via WASD... The hitch is that until a standard is publicly recognized, it might as well not exist.

Also, when setting a standard that should be accepted industry wide, you've got to be very careful not to outline anything that may interfere with the creative process.

We're in the habbit of just accepting whatever is tossed at us in MMOG's, and complaining about specific things that bug us instead of pointing out previously existing standards to the devs. I wonder if L2 would be a better game had this thread existed at the very begining of closed beta, on their forums.

Then again, that team is rather vision struck, and doesn't seem to take suggestions from players very well.

I'd agree that WoW has the right idea. Short of an "official" standard, devs can include every common variation of a command, but a set and "official" standard could still shave at least a few hours off development time there.

Bah, maybe I just overanalyze shit too much for the point I'm at in my education, but still, I would love to see the MMOG community set a standard, and say as one, "This is how it should be." What's the worst that could come of it? They wouldn't listen? Hell, half of 'em already do that /grin

[orcmauler]

If i recall right there is no way to resize windows in L2, at least none that I know. Makes it really fun when the game cuts off its own text for quests, items, etc.

[Ham n Cheese]

Is WoW using /w (whisper) like the rest of bnet games? Or do they have this "standard" option you speak of. Or are you just tooting their horn a bout having their own standard. You lost me.

Edit: Didn't mean with the whole posts, I see your complaint about FFXI and L2. But, was trying to say unless WoW has this standard command list option, I don't see how their system they want "standard" is any better.

So basically just want to know if WoW has this feature, if so ignore the rest of my post

[James]

Originally posted by Ham n Cheese
Is WoW using /w (whisper) like the rest of bnet games? Or do they have this "standard" option you speak of.

I think someone said that WoW will use both /tell and /whsiper.

[Faranor]

Originally posted by Tuco
In WoW, I heard Blizzard is having /msg, /whisper, and /tell performing the same function. This is a good move in my idea.

...

[Jait]

As long as they allow you to save custom settings there will always be a "lazy" way to create a standard.

In some games you can download an "EQ" or "FPS" set of precustom keys then stick it in a config folder.

That said there's some other good stuff here, like mentioning first-person PoV. I totally agree. When you're talking mmorpgs and immersiveness, there's no better start than allowing the players eyeballs to be in *their* toons head. Not up above in the clouds, or in some imaginary chase camera.

Tho I like those features as well for kiting and well, running my ass off away from a_critter00.

The more customizing the better. Hopefully someday you'll be able to make a near universal file with all your icons, macros, etc.. like some MUD clients let you do.

[ICELL]

Originally posted by Tuco
(Oh, and make every game allow first person view =)

I won't buy any 3D RPG-type game that doesn't have first person view. How can a game like this be as immersive if you don't have this view?

[Immy]

I personally enjoy isometric views, thats probably because I played UO as my 2nd RPG in 1997...and I loved that game pre-expansion.

I wish EQ had a viable 3rd person view like WoW does...it creates another dimention to playing.

Personally I'd rather play in 3rd person view than 1st person, you get a better view of what you're fighting and the area that you're in. I'd only use 1st person in WoW if I had to, like in tight areas where 3rd person isn't that viable an option.

[Olio]

They just need simple macroing. You know, basic stuff from 20 years ago. I dunno how much of it we'll get though as they all seem deathly afraid that we'll just macro up level bots and max out our characters in our sleep. Really there is no reason not to have "/alias and a /trigger that only does text recoloring. Imagine for example that everyone simply had the '* yawns." and "* drools." lines highlighted, you could just get rid of all the debuff messages in EQ. It would also be nice if you could package up all your favorite emotes without using up precious macro-hotkey space.

Olio

[Samus Aran]

Heh. Could always use MacroQuest kekekekekeke ^.^

[Onnatop]

There were other games, Duke Nukem, Quake, that used default WASD movement keys. I know I'm not the only one who was annoyed all to hell about this becoming the standard as well. Standard keyboard typing position on a qwerty keyboard has your index finger on your left hand over F and right hand over J.

Doesn't it make more sense for your default forward, backward, left, right keys to be ESDF? I've always rebound my movement keys to these, how annoying would it be for me to have to move my hand one key to the left to move, one key to the right to type.

Of course, I suppose I could use my pinky, ring, middle finger to move with, but that's would seem to be even more annoying.