Screw the casual gamer complaints

[Goliath]

I realize that a company must try and please both casual gamers and hardcore gamers this day and age if they want to sell a MMOG and keep it running. Nevertheless I am really tired of casual gamers complaining about things taking to long, leveling, quests, running from point a to point b. All because they don't have too much time to play. Well I am sorry that you don't have too much time to play, go get an Xbox, not a MMOG.

Reason I bring this up is this post -
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/threa...nt=28#post4989

To me it seems like leveling in WoW is already too easy, however we have not seen 30-60, and in Diablo 2 1-70 is cake and then it starts getting really hard and 90-99 is ridicolous. So maybe the curve of 30-60 will be huge, but as it stands imo it seems like it is too easy to level. And yet people are still complaining because they are casual gamers and can't get enough done.

Hell, I have been playing EQ since pre kunark, and was hardcore most of the time, raids non stop, 4AM raids to get the mobs before anyone else, but now I am casual, but I am not complaining that I don't have enough time to do all the GoD trial flags or that I can't re join a 24/7 raid guild. Well I mainly don't complain because I have no desire to play EQ more then the tiny ammount I currently play, and only because I have friends that still do, but the point is, casual gamers complaining need to stfu.

From the looks of it casual gamers can already get alot done in WoW, with the many quests they can do when they log in for there 2 hours a day to the fact that any class can solo, they need not complain. I just see no reason for casual gamers to even make one complaint about WoW, and yet I know there are going to be a ton. I got nothing against casual gamers, play however you like.

[FoghornDeadhorn]

I was wondering what could have possibly sparked such a rant, but after reading about five posts:

Yep.

Johnny needs to STFU.

[Yermum Onceme]

that poster is a huge fucking idiot

giving everyone a 30% exp bonus isn't going to shorten the gap between hardcore and casual. It won't do shit to let casual people catch up. If he thinks leveling is too slow, fine, propose a bonus, but his suggestion doesn't match his problem at all.

His second idea... lol. Making a game where you grind just to get to where the real game begins sounds like current eq to me.

[Goladus]

That retarded thread was not worth a rant...

Wasn't a very good rant either...

[Leet]

I really hope blizzard doesnt listen to such whiney assmonkeys

[Goliath]

Just gets annoying, was more then just that thread. Casual gamers of mmog have been complaining for ages, and its getting really old and tiresome. Seriously, mmog's arn't designed for casual gamers, so stfu and don't play it. They are just so annoying when they come complaining that anything is too hard and that everything takes too long.

They think that they should be able to do everything in a few weeks because they have "skill". Im afraid no matter what mmog's will never take too much skill, how far can skill go in an mmog? Mmog's are mainly based on time, and I hate how some casual gamers can't grasp that. Do I wish mmog's were more skill based? Sure, but its not really possible.

Sure I think the game should be fun for both casual and hardcore gamers, but casual gamers need to understand they won't be as strong/good whatever you want to call it as those who invest more time.

[eXnihilo]

Is FoH avoiding all WoW board discussion? I'de like to think that the these kinds of rants are falling on deaf ears and that developers are seeking out advice from experienced MMOG players. Anyone from FoH mind commenting?

[Goliath]

If I was in beta I wouldn't be talking on the boards with those bnet kiddies whatsoever. I have seen a COUPLE mature people post on the alpha boards, but most of it is immature kids.

[Tuco]

At least the posts on www.worldofwarcraft.com are english, instead of what they speak on the battle.net forums.

As for his proposition, yes, it's laughable. What isn't laughable is the number of players who share similar opinions as he, and how they may outnumber those who share Goliath's, and most other's on this board's opinion(including me).

I've been saying this for a while, but I don't care about how hard the game is until level 50 or so. I say make levels 50-60 difficult to get through so that it's a respectable thing to be level 60.

I also think there should be a difference between casual gamers, and hardcore gamers, in terms of what content is available to them. In a fantasy world I envision, some content won't be reached in a new release until one or two expansions later, simply because it's too hard. And in this fantasy game, I would want one guild on a server being further along than all the rest of the guilds(or a few guilds) simply because they're more skilled / have more time than the others(moreso the former).

People say that raid(40 people) encounters are easy because 36 or so folks just need to be button pushing monkeys, well, then in my fantasy game, make it difficult and skill requiring that those 36 people need to be skilled to progress their guild.

What I propose is content that will only be reached by several guilds on a server, until the next expansion and mudflation allows more guilds to experience the content. (note the similarity of this and EQ, I think one? or something guild got AoW before Luclin came out with AAs, only several guilds were clearing NToV per server before Luclin, etc).

I don't care much about how 'long' it takes to level, just how 'hard' it is to get to level 60.
I understand the business scheme that it's silly, on the surface, to cater to %5 of the server population, but let me theorize this:

The top end gamer is more important than the casual gamer.

Mostly because ALL players can appreciate the advances of the players at the end game. By this I mean that level lower levels get excited over the new loot coming out, hell, I've seen them get excited over stuff they'll never get to.(Oh, and hardcore gamers usually end up in a game longer than a casual gamer, as well as buy multiple accounts)

My fear is that within months of WoW's release, the end game will be full of misfit guilds cutting through endgame content, simply because it caters to casual guilds who can accomplish anything they want without the skill, coordination, leadership and time of 'uber' guilds.

Whether or not this fear will be realized is yet to be seen, I look forward to the inclusion of endgame content in beta, to see what people think of the difficulty of it and whether or not it will seperate the elite from the rubes.

To me, it will be a minor failure if the hardest encounters are accomplished by a dozen guilds before the release of the new expansion.

[Mkopec1]

Originally posted by Tuco
At least the posts on [url]

The top end gamer is more important than the casual gamer.

Keep telling yourself this.

The only importance you have is to test leet content before the masses get to it.

Money wise, they could loose all of you "important" players and still get a bonus to buy their kids some toys.

I consider myself a hardcore gamer, shit, 30-40 hours per week.

But in no way do I consider myself "important".

The bane this industry is realizing that they do have to cater to more and more casuals in order to gain new customers. Trust me, only very few people have time enough and the will to play these games 30-40 hours per week. Maybe 1 out of 100 that play these games.

So in esscense it is only the hardcore players who will loose out in the end, because the industry should and will cater to the casual players more and more to attract new business.

Weather you agree with it, cry about it, bitch and moan, it wont change that fact.

What you should hope for is a nitche product that someday will be released that caters to only the hardcore.

The day of the hardcore MMORPG is over, as evidence, look how they dummbed down EQ, and every MMORPG since then has been more and more casual friendly.

[Lost Ranger]

Yep I am noticing more and more Online games coming out are far to easy to reach "high end" I cant say much cause of NDA but I am playing an upcoming game that will be huge, but you can go from level 1 -8 in like 1 hour. That to me screams out easy. If it keeps at its current rate people will max out their first char in like 1 month tops.

The ONLY games I think who should have easy leveling are PvP based games. Games like DAoC and Shadowbane could of been alot more fun if level 1 to max took only a few weeks. Cause those games arnt based around the "journey" but around the war that awaits at the end.

Leveling in DAoC was so terribly boring and slow I never got pass level 44. PvP games should be easier leveling. PvE games need to be harder. Not only that but people who only can play 2-3 hours TOPS a day really shouldnt play MMOs, like was said go get an Xbox or somthing. MMOs are not just graphical chat channels like some would like to think. They are suppose to be long, hard and most of all fun. Not easy, short and boring as hell.

[Jait]

I want to go on Safari to Africa and only spend 10 hours doing so.

I want to go river rafting in Colorado, but I only have a day.


etc....etc....


There are plenty of avenues of entertainment for those with less time. That's why I have a PS2.

[Mkopec1]

Originally posted by Jait
I want to go on Safari to Africa and only spend 10 hours doing so.

I want to go river rafting in Colorado, but I only have a day.


etc....etc....


There are plenty of avenues of entertainment for those with less time. That's why I have a PS2.

Ok, but logically think from a developers point of view. Should you develop a game for hardcore and drive a Saturn to work?

Or develop for the mainstream public and drive a Beamer.

Either way the hardcore again will loose, why?

Because the game industry is there to make money, not cater to hardcore gamers that think they are important and have bigger cocks because they are in Uber Guild XXX.

But this is not to say that they cannot develop a game that caters to both.

[Nakilos]

Hate to say it but Mkopec is right. Hardcore gamers don't mean as much as the bottom line. Sure, hardcore gamers can be an asset to a game. When certain people get somewhere first and experience the bugs/issues, its better that its only a problem for a handful of people than half the player base because 1) gives them more time to fix it 2) the hardcores aren't going to quit anyway. Players do help shape how finished the games are, or can, just depends how much the company wants to pay attention to player concerns.

In any game leveling isn't something thats ever "hard". Its killing piles of monsters until your level is 1 level more, and doing it over and over til you reach the maximum. It is a means to an end. Its fast in every game. Basically if you can get 1 level in under 12 hours total time spent exping, that is fast considering how much there *should* be to do in a MMORPG. I cannot figure out why people want it to be lower.

The fact is most casual gamers are simply have nots who scream the loudest. They want the most toys, but don't want to invest the time or effort. Casual gamers also out number hardcore gamers 100:1.

It wouldn't be profitable to make a game just for hardcore players. Besides the fact that there really isn't that many people who spend large quantities of their lives playing a game almost exclusively, hardcore players do get bored faster simply because content is consumed faster. A "power gamer" is less likely to keep their accounts active to login once a week to chat, more likely to quit outright, where as a casual gamer might log in 2-3 times a month for a few hours and still be paying for the account. I saw this a lot when I played EQ. Older members of my guild who had quit a long time ago still had their accounts active, would log in to say hi once in a blue moon, all the while still paying for the account until usually 2 years later it occured to them every month they are being billed and cancelled. Personally when I quit, I canceled the account and assume the character is long gone now (or not, that 3 month character deletion thing is pretty hit or miss).

Can rant about the fact you are insignificant to these companies, but it doesn't change the fact you are insignificant.

[eXnihilo]

I'm sorry, but hardcore gamers are the heart of great games. If developers started making games that didn't cater to committed and skilled players, it means that they're making games that are unchallenging and ultimately boring. NOBODY will play a boring game no matter how casual you are. The problem with MMOGs is that everyone thinks they should be able to achieve the best in everything without any hardship. Gaining rewards without putting forth the effort. When you remove these hardships, you no longer have a game...you've got Progress Quest. You don't see Bliz making their RTS games easier so that people who don't get to practice alot can compete fairly against those who have dedicated themselves to becoming very skilled do you?