72 Person raid limit needs to be removed.

[Xaen]

I'm noticing as PoP progression increases, so do the amount of people tagging along. Sometimes we're seeing the raid limit hit the cap and a second raid is formed. Going back to standard channels is fine, but it makes group makeup a bit difficult. I've read people bringing over 80-90 people once they're in Elemental - Is this true for most guilds? How do you handle this?

These limits.. 72 person raids.. 30 debuff slots (You get more than 4 necros on a raid and yer fucked)... need to be removed. The limitations in this game are getting too stiffling and frustrating for an RPG.

The game has gotten too big, too crowded. Sony needs to realise this and compensate.

I know this issue somewhat came into the light when LDoN was introduced and it (stupidly) limited raids to a pathetic amount of people, but its really starting to come into the standard game more and more everyday as the endless amounts of players seem to join up with guilds. Why haven't they fixed any of this since LDoN.. Someone is slackin'...

[Genado]

Originally posted by Xaen
I'm noticing as PoP progression increases, so do the amount of people tagging along. Sometimes we're seeing the raid limit hit the cap and a second raid is formed. Going back to standard channels is fine, but it makes group makeup a bit difficult. I've read people bringing over 80-90 people once they're in Elemental - Is this true for most guilds? How do you handle this?

These limits.. 72 person raids.. 30 debuff slots (You get more than 4 necros on a raid and yer fucked)... need to be removed. The limitations in this game are getting too stiffling and frustrating for an RPG.

The game has gotten too big, too crowded. Sony needs to realise this and compensate.

I know this issue somewhat came into the light when LDoN was introduced and it (stupidly) limited raids to a pathetic amount of people, but its really starting to come into the standard game more and more everyday as the endless amounts of players seem to join up with guilds. Why haven't they fixed any of this since LDoN.. Someone is slackin'...

So The Solution for the game thats gotten too big and too crowded is to make it even bigger by allowing even bigger raids? Umm....please explain

[Xaen]

What is there to explain? The game is too big, they need to remove the limitations so it can expand. It's like trying to park a Hummer in a subcompact parking spot. You can still do it, but it pisses everyone off.

[Leatherneck]

I know this issue somewhat came into the light when LDoN was introduced and it (stupidly) limited raids to a pathetic amount of people, but its really starting to come into the standard game more and more everyday as the endless amounts of players seem to join up with guilds.

Why would anyone want to join a bloated guild anyway? Why would a guild want a huge influx of members? Now I can understand if the guild's lacking a specific, needed class, but who'd want to be the 8th monk in a guild? Who'd want to be the 10th wizard?

Bloated raids are a pain, IMO. You want to get a mess of guildies and non-guildies flagged, have them do the raid. Provide some direction, and needed classes if they're lacking, and let them go to it. Why encourage the zerg by removing limitations placed to restrict it?

[Kashmiir Battlekat]

Let us not overlook the outrages lag a zone will generate once you reach 107+ people in the zone.

Example: (2) 55 man raid groups in Plane of Earth doing rings. Jesus Christ the lag is harder to deal with then the mobs.

Do I agree that they should expand the 72 man raid limit. Yes, actually, I do. It would make forming raids easier, piggy backing in non-flagged and generally make life 'easier' for everyone involved. Nothing 'stops' you from forming 2 raids and then making a raid channel. Its happening now and happening often across all servers. So why not... I dont know.

Once flag mob dies, disband non-group leaders and begin inviting those who need the flag to hail the Projection. /shrug... its just another hurdle that likely shouldnt exist.

Of course there are mobs where they do not 'want' more then 72 in a raid (ie: RZtW)... other then that enounter I know of no others.

[Xaen]

Originally posted by Leatherneck
Why would anyone want to join a bloated guild anyway? Why would a guild want a huge influx of members? Now I can understand if the guild's lacking a specific, needed class, but who'd want to be the 8th monk in a guild? Who'd want to be the 10th wizard?

Various reasons really. Mostly because everyone in these games have friends. It's a nerd packed version of that Kevin Bacon game. Sure, friends can exist outside of guilds in other guilds (and do!), but why should that be the only choice? It shouldn't, and isn't.

Originally posted by Leatherneck

Bloated raids are a pain, IMO. You want to get a mess of guildies and non-guildies flagged, have them do the raid. Provide some direction, and needed classes if they're lacking, and let them go to it. Why encourage the zerg by removing limitations placed to restrict it?

Aye, flagging can be handled fine by doing tag-a-longs with other raids. Thats not really my point, though. The 72 Person limit was not meant to restrict the zerg in any sense of the term. It was a limit because at the time SOE thought guilds would never use that many.

That was a long time ago. Time to get with 2004 and beyond.

[Leatherneck]

The 72 Person limit was not meant to restrict the zerg in any sense of the term.

I'd be interested in reading something official that supports this assertion.

[Siddar]

Nope 72seems a fine number maybe a little to high but good enough.

[Jait]

This horse gets beaten to a bloody pulp once a month it seems.

First off you've contradicted yourself so many times it's not even funny.


You want to *preserve* the RPG feeling by making everyone faceless in a 100+ man guild. Good idea!!

More likely, you fail to understand and fall into a part of what makes EQ suck: It's that every shitty whiny drama queen can be in an uberguild BECAUSE of the already GIGANTIC Guild limits.


Have you wondered why all the new games are going with extremely low guild counts?

No more of you twitchy fingered fags calling for ROLE PLAYING! Okay?

I never want to hear this in a mmorpg anymore:

"Hey we got enough for Nag/Vox?"
"Newp, need about 90."
"Fuck, okay invite &&& and &&&, even tho they suck we need their DPS"

Now every expansion that followed change Nag/Vox to the new Bosses and you have EQ in a nutshell, and what's wrong with what you're saying.

[Rythonn]

30 debuff slots

Pfft be glad you have that many. Do you realize how long it took to get that?

Ryth

[Shinrai]

The 30 debuff slots is a huge PITA. It's not enough that many DD's have greater speed and mana efficiency than DOT's (and fit the new model of faster fights) these days but when some of the DOT's start bouncing off the mobs it really sucks. Especially if that DOT was part of lifeburn. They either need to reduce certain classes dependance on DOT's (shaman, necro mostly) or increase the number of slots.

But they don't get it. After all lucy shows one of the new GoD shaman spells being a long lasting disease DOT doing 20DPS. What the heck's the point of that. Any shaman casts that on a raid they are dropping our DPS.

As for the raid limitation, it's a tricky one. Having raids limited to 72 does impliment a, albeit artiticial and inconvenient, maximum size. But many guilds if they have "good" attendance will go over it whcih is a pain. It's not ideal but I don't think moving it to a larger number will make it better, and we'll see the same problem with whatever number they pick.

[HunterRonnald]

only thing i could possibly agree with is more debuff slots. my guild rarely fills 72 people but we, for some odd reason, have a shit load of necros.

[Xenjuro]

SoE is still reeling from the mistake of making high end PoP guilds bulk up their forces to field 72 players regularly to progress. They did this because they didn't want their content zerged, so the only semi limiting factor they had at the time was using the max raid capacity of 72. Now with instanced technology they can put a tight grip on the maximum participants in an encounter and design it around that max, knowing full well that it wont be able to be zerged.

You increase the raid size, and guess what? SoE will start designing content around that max raid size for non instanced raid content. Bad idea. We've come to accept 72, but it does NOT need to go higher. If you try an encounter with more than 72, then sorry charlie, you'll have to put up with all the extra cumbersome shit that goes along with a bloated raid force.

Zerging's what's caused this steady inflation of encounters requiring more people and I'll be damned if SoE caters toward that. In fact, any mechanism that prevents more than our revered 72 from participating in an encounter is welcomed wholeheartedly by me.

[DcDohl]

Is someone you love addicted to Zerg?

Telltale signs are:

1) Less l00t every month than your average person.
2) Slow reaction, as if they're living in molasses.
3) Constant angst against the world in general

Seek help now!




When I used to play EQ, my guild was even lucky if we can get 60 people for raids, and we did things dandy enough provided we had everyone on the ball. It was kind of pointless to raise the limit to 72.

Then again, some people just can't play without a small village helping them.

[Goanad]

Don't let the zerg get bigger...please god!

I'm guessing the original poster has neverplayed a melee and literally spent the entire time at a raid trying in desperation to climb over the mountain of bodies trying to beat down the mob in question.