<Sigil> Gebron & Caliandre show up. Even more talk about "The Game" !

[Xarpolis]

I would like to thank Arnie for parsing this log. I was just too lazy, and well... he did a damn good job of it.

Zatx_Woopyoax : For those of you that don't know AbigaleSGO is Cindy Bowens, the lovely Community Manager for SigilGames.
*** CaliandreSGO has joined #sigilgames

AbigaleSGO : Well folks..... I just got a call from Ryan.... his car is broken down and he is trying to get help to get to the office
AbigaleSGO : So I guess we will have to reschedule for Ryan to come back. I apologize and he sends his apologies as well
AbigaleSGO : But Cali is joining us for a bit.


AlodarTheJaded : ok, So Cali, tell us about how smart the monsters will be and how we'll have to develop supercomputers to devise our strategies for us if we want to be lazy
CaliandreSGO : : Monsters should have an intelligence rating that will be used to determine what strategies they use. So your generic "rat" will be really dumb, but humanoids and such will have advanced tactics and strategies
CaliandreSGO : they'll be working together in groups, etc
CaliandreSGO : plus there will be a lot of ambient AI outside of combat that adds to the depth of the world
CaliandreSGO : i mostly do AI, but lately I've been doing a lot of gameplay, network stuff, general server architecture, etc
CaliandreSGO : I've been MIA myself lately because we've been so busy


Zatx_Woopyoax : Rats will work in packs, eh?
Zatx_Woopyoax : Ambient AI?
CaliandreSGO : yeah, or wolves, but some types of creatures are natural loners, etc

Xarpolis : but once that monster is killed, it would respawn without anything learned once more
CaliandreSGO : I've been thinking back and forth on the learning thing. I think that there is definitely use for it in a limited sense

CaliandreSGO : you want to make sure that the mob behavior still falls close to what the designers "intended" for feel of the encounter/game

Lister : Oh, awesome. Flocks of birds and that sort of thing?
CaliandreSGO : yes, ambient AI is flocks of birds, or ambient goals for NPCs (as in, I like beer and sleep, so that's what I'm going to do most of the time)

CaliandreSGO : As Abigale mentioned, I should introduce myself
CaliandreSGO : <-- Amanda Poe
CaliandreSGO : I'm a senior programmer at sigil. I came most recently from SOE working on AI/Pathing/quests/gameplay/server on eqoa
CaliandreSGO : back in my distant past, I worked on all sorts of other stuff, graphics and the like


Zornn : What compiler do you use?
CaliandreSGO : visual studio .net 2003
Zornn : managed or unmanaged?
Zornn : c++
CaliandreSGO : unmanaged c++
CaliandreSGO : one of our tools is in c#
CaliandreSGO : most of us are big fans of the Whole Tomato visual assist program which is a really awesome add on for .net

AlodarTheJaded : Do you develop most of your own tools, or ask for tools?
CaliandreSGO : write now our designer tools are in house
CaliandreSGO : I've been doing them lately, but one of them in particular has been passed around a bit

AlodarTheJaded : Are we going to be able to run away from mobs, since there's no zonelines, or will they hunt us down like psychopathic nerds?
CaliandreSGO : obviously, having them poof breaks the realism
CaliandreSGO : but it stops kiting around their leash limit, and the leash stops griefers from training a dragon into town

Zatx_Woopyoax : If a lvl 20 mob sees that I have a group of level 30's.. will it turn and run, rather than try and engage us?
CaliandreSGO : zatx: depends on its intelligence
CaliandreSGO : a smart mob should run

Kheldon : Will AI have objectives other than waiting for us to kill them?
CaliandreSGO : kheldon: yes

Amris : I like the social aspect of EQ, which has diminished recently. Will there be a strong focus on this?
CaliandreSGO : we all realize that the social aspect of an mmo is what differentiates us from all the single player games out there

MorbidDeath : will underground/dungeons be separate zones from outdoor/terrain?
CaliandreSGO : in almost every design decision, the issue is considered, from grouping, to placement of settlements, etc

Zatx_Woopyoax : CaliandreSGO, Brad has mentioned playing SigilQuest from his house already.... how many users can you get tied in together now from offsite?
CaliandreSGO : honestly, we haven't really stress-tested the servers

Zatx_Woopyoax : how many have you had connected at once so far?
CaliandreSGO : well, I can't tell you exactly where we're at
Zatx_Woopyoax : they dont have enough employees for stress tests..lol
CaliandreSGO : yeah, hehe
CaliandreSGO : Mostly we have designers and managers connected to the game during the day testing, etc

Kheldon : Cali, could you give examples of objectives that the AI could have?
CaliandreSGO : so on the simple side, you have a grazing animal
CaliandreSGO : 1) it wants to stay in a herd
CaliandreSGO : 2) it wants to eat
CaliandreSGO : 3) it wants to stay away from danger
CaliandreSGO : 4) it needs to drink every n hours
CaliandreSGO : so all those things get evaluated
CaliandreSGO : but on the more complex side, you can have an NPC in a city who has more "human" type goals

Kiranth : Compared to EQOA how hard would you say programming SigilQuest has been?
CaliandreSGO : well, SigilQuest has a much bigger scope, being 3rd gen and all that. EQOA had a small feature set in hopes that it would be a bit easier to play on a console
CaliandreSGO : but there are a lot of similarities as well
CaliandreSGO : I'm working a LOT more than I did while at SOE
Kiranth : Is that a good thing or a bad thing? hehe
CaliandreSGO : it's good, I much prefer being challenged to being bored

Zornn : You guys get anything from Microsoft in the way of technology?
CaliandreSGO : microsoft is really good at giving us software and such when we need it


Fervor : are you eliminting "main tanking" as and option in vanguard?
CaliandreSGO : the goal is to keep combat always interesting

CaliandreSGO : to address the kiting question, main tank, etc, both AI and combat flow have to be designed in such a way that the state of the battle is more dynamic

xyrrus : How much more load does an AI like the one you described put on the servers than say EQ's model?
CaliandreSGO : xyrrus: the load isn't too bad, because monsters only need to reevaluate their goal every few seconds
CaliandreSGO : There's a balance in designing mob tactics and writing the AI for them. You want it to be challenging and dynamic, but sometimes exact realism isn't fun at all

Ezzy : Cali, is the class tree going to go more towards the eq2 model where you have many choices? So that there will be more higher level classes than eq1
CaliandreSGO : ezzy: I can't really talk about our class progression, sorry
CaliandreSGO : well, i take that back
CaliandreSGO : i can tell you one thing
CaliandreSGO : it's super cool

Ezzy : i thought not , I guess I was really asking are you trying to make it so that there are many different combinations of groups that could be the 'best' at doing something... because in eq all the encounters eventually become the same set up because there is one best setup
CaliandreSGO : ezzy: it's my hope that there is a mixture of the two things. On one side, it's a challenge to figure out how to beat an encounter. On the other, once someone does and publishes this information, it's lame

CaliandreSGO : I have to work really closely with design on this stuff. The danger of AI programmers is that we try and design the game ourselves and then some of the handcrafted feel is lost

Xarpolis : Have you run accross any problems with the AI yet? if so, what are they?
CaliandreSGO : Xar: the biggest problem comes when there is a choice between realism and gameplay
CaliandreSGO : ultimately, the gameplay has to be fair
CaliandreSGO : RYAN ELAM IS IN MY OFFICE

Dorian : anything you can say about character flexibility? IE I have played a cleric for 3 years, but I am getting a litte tired of it, is there any talk or ideas about "respeccing" or are the skills and choices hard set at char start..
CaliandreSGO : Dor: yeah, can't say. A designer might be able to give a better "obscure answer that doesn't really say anything"

*** Gebron has joined #sigilgames
AbigaleSGO :: Welcome Gebron
Lister : (Denver's PK is Jason Elam. :P)
Gebron : : Hello guys! No relation to Jason Elam, far as I know!

Maleficence : Caliandre: is there any plans for making mob AI do mistakes?
CaliandreSGO : Mal: would be cool if they made more mistakes if you debuffed int/wis methinks

Xarpolis : holy hell, you're Gebron?
Gebron : : That's what it says on my nametag, Xarpolis

AbigaleSGO :: Poor Gebron had a rough morning... everyone be nice to him

Fervor : Ryan, Are you getting enough sleep with the alpha milestone looming? We worry. :P
Gebron : : Fer: Eh don't worry... We've all been through tough milestones before. We're friggin' tanks over here. *grin*

Gebron : : Hmm.... well, I'm Gebron, demented lead code monkey of the Sigil Team working on project ***********.
Gebron : : My main duties this week are working on various aspects of the graphics engine(s), and seeing us forward towards our end goal of taking over the world.
Gebron : : Secondly, I have the incredible priviledge of working with not ONLY the best and most experienced team of programmers to ever work on a MMOG, but we get to support the best design and art team as well. It's sort of a dream job, really. Sometimes, I forget that they PAY me to do this.
Gebron : : But I always have my mortgage company to remind me. =)

Heales : question to Gebron then: How are you making sure that you launch with a top of the line graphic engine AND that the engine stay competitive during the lifetime of the game???
Gebron : : Heales: Good question, and one which plagues us constantly. To add to the problem, we have to define what is a "top of the line" graphics engine in MMOG space, which means the ability to render decent frame rate with tons of characters on the screen. To do this, we use a lot of friends in the business, and a LOT of time behind the keyboard. It's mostly hard work.

MorbidDeath : so are you happy with the engine you picked to modify....or would you have rather had a different one or started completely from scratch?
Gebron> Morbid: I think that the biggest boon we have gotten from our decisions was the ability to get the art team in production YEARS ahead of most other teams working on similar projects.


CaliandreSGO : I'm back, went to get a soda.
Maleficence : Caliandre: what kind?
CaliandreSGO : well, ever since the whole brominated vegetable oil, it's diet pepsi/coke
CaliandreSGO : or sugarfree redbuug
CaliandreSGO : er
CaliandreSGO : redbull
CaliandreSGO : i lost 15 - 20 pounds when i quit intaking sugar


AlodarTheJaded : Gebron: Nvidia or ATI?
AlodarTheJaded : and why?
Gebron : : Alodar: Today, ATI. nVidia is struggling. But a few driver changes can fix a lot =)
Gebron : : Alodar: We'll support as many graphics cards as we possibly can, within reason. The "hot ticket" graphics cards you have now will be mainstream by then. Your TNT cards can be thrown out the window, though...hehe

Lister : Can either of you speak about the flexibility of the engine? Will you be able to change geometry/AI scripts/etc on the fly?
CaliandreSGO : lister: one of the goals it to have a much more dynamic world than 2nd gen mmos

jent4ii : pepsi or coke?
Gebron : : jent: Diet Mtn Dew
Gebron : : I drink over 4 liters a day... if I didn't drink diet, I'd have to be lifted into my office by crane.

Fervor : I plan on building/upgrading my computer on sigilquests release. Will there be a recommended hardware equipment list for the game(CPU, HD, Vid card, etc)?
Gebron : : Fervor: You can count on it. We'll have lots of ways for you to predict your "leetness" system-wise long before the game's release.
Gebron : : (performance wise... not like easier leveling hehe)

Maleficence : Gebron: kinda like that FFXI benchmark utility?
Gebron : : Mal: Yes, exactly.

Xarpolis : So Geb. what are your own personal goals with this project?
Gebron : : Xar: Simply to make the most funnerest game we can possibly make. Since this job is so time consuming, our game will be the only one I get to play a great deal of for the next ... oh... five years. So it HAS to be good. =)

jent4ii : will there be any cool preorder offers like tshirts or panties or can openers
nohbdy : or babes of sigilworld calendars?
CaliandreSGO : how about a calendar of gebron in the sigil thong. that should cover all the bases

Heales : Another question as well. Since this is a truly next generation MMORPG: Will this game have build inn support for voice communication?
Gebron : : Heales: It's way up there on the priority list. Too soon to say... but if the tech is strong by the time we release you can bet we'll have it where it makes sense.

Arnie : Gebron: Is the Game going to be 64-bit or 32-bit?
Zatx_Woopyoax : Arnie : Gebron: Is the Game going to be 64-bit or 32-bit?
Gebron : : Zatx: There will be a 64-bit client and 32-bit client.

Xarpolis : what's the difference between a 64 and 32 bit client?
Gebron : : Xarpolis: Mostly it's a matter of how much can be in memory and be accessible. As far as how that translates to, feature wise, that's undetermined at this stage.

CaliandreSGO : okay guys, the designers have started icqing me asking for stuff
CaliandreSGO : nice chatting with you all
AbigaleSGO :: Thanks for stopping in Cali
CaliandreSGO : take care
*** CaliandreSGO has quit IRC

Fervor : How about Graphics sets in game where you can “Hotkey” different configurations for performance like for outdoors to “laggy” cities. A city set would have a lower rez, no shading, etc.
Gebron : : Fervor: We are planning on having in-game configuration adjustments you can do on the fly. This will allow the "power gamer" more ability to control his performance without interrupting play. It's big on my list, because it aggrevates the BANANAS out of this code monkey when I have to quit other games.

yd : i dunno, i have 1.5 gb on this machine ... if i bought a new one i'd probably want to double that ( assuming i can fit 3gb on a motherboard these days ).
jent4ii : the average computer user isn't going to purchase that much yet though
Gebron : : Jent4ii: Most of the price of memory is in the tooling of the factory for manufacture. Once you can put a 512 gigabyte memory stick on a motherboard, they will be made and start trickling down in price.... we have 25 years of empirical data to back it up.

AlodarTheJaded : Gebron: Will you borrow EQW's command of crtl-alt-R to release the mouse please? I'm too used to that now
AlodarTheJaded : as well as allowing typing as long as the game has the focus
Gebron : : Alodar: Keyboard configurations will be fully editable by the user... make your own decision. =)

MorbidDeath : Gebron: a few questions about the engine.....will PC be able to dynamically effect terrain, will there be visible season changes also dynamic weather for the world?
Gebron : : Morbid: Basically every "dynamic" event you could imagine we REALLY want to do. Until the code is done, though, I don't want to promise anything. We already have some forms of dynamic weather, and it is pretty darn impressive looking.

yd : since MMOGs are such huge time sinks, i need to be able to have at least irc / winamp / msn / 5 or 10 IE windows in the background. and be able to access all of them.
Gebron : : yd: Don't plan on stopping you from using your favorite communications apps... but hopefully our sound/music will be a bit more entertaining than our previous record. =)

Zatx_Woopyoax : Gebron: Will SigilQuest be set up to operate on more than one monitor? Similar to FPS's?
Gebron : : Zatx: Yes, it will be able to utilize multiple monitors in several different ways. By the time we ship, it will likely be common practice.

Maleficence : omg, i'm going to need more monitors!
Gebron : : Maleficence: With very few exceptions, we all use multiple monitors here.

yd : gebron -- if you can make sound and music that is not terribly repetitive by nature, then i might give it a try. but nothing annoys me more than having to listen to some MOB moan and groan in pain every 2 seconds, as i kill it.
Gebron : : yd: You'll be suprised at how much diversity there is to the animation and sound system in our game. It's pretty amazing.

yd : gebron -- here's an idea. make sure different categories of sound can be adjusted independently ( i.e. i can turn off mob groaning if i want, while leaving footsteps and spell sounds on )
Gebron : : yd: Trust me... I'm a configuration option junkie. If it's up to me, you'll be able to change the smell of your breath! *grin*

Fervor : What is Sigils staffing goals post alpha(major development)? 40 person staff? 50? More? It’s a good gauge of how BIG this game will be.
Gebron : : Fervor: Our staffing goals are probably a question more for brad/jeff than I. Long as I get my coders, I'm a happy monkey.

AlodarTheJaded : Gebron: what's your favorite part of coding the game so far? Which aspect of the game
AlodarTheJaded : i.e. network, graphics engine, configurations, tools, etc
Gebron : : Alodar: My favorite part in these projects is always the first time I can log into a server and run up to another programmer. It's almost always the "firsts" that jazz me.

jent4ii : can you make sure that arrow keys are re-bindable, i hate games that don't let you do that
Gebron : : Jent4ii: See above. Configuration junkie. You'll be able to adjust the size of your toenails... =)

Kiranth : Gebron: To get your mind off Sigil for one second, what do you think of wish's attempt at a single server for the entire game?
Kiranth : You think that this might be something we see more of in the future, or a horrible idea that is destined to fail?
Kiranth : I'm a bit skeptical about the idea.
Gebron : : Kirath: I'm glad someone ELSE is doing the "one server" test, and not us. I personaly prefer a server where I can acquire a group of friends and keep track of them. I enjoy the fact that on my play server I know MOST of the people of the same level as I. I can log on and feel "at home". Not sure I can get that from a server where every time I log on it's a complete different set of people.

MelissaMoonPatrol : gebron. any of the coders hired out of house?
MelissaMoonPatrol : i know that alot of companies are doing this now...having alot of their art etc done by 3rd parties
MelissaMoonPatrol : is that happening with Sigil?
MelissaMoonPatrol : not 3rd party programs. bu 3rd part developement
Gebron : : MelissaMoonPatrol: Currently, all our coders are in-house. We need to be able to collaborate much too frequently for someone to be a phone call away.

jent4ii : how do you have a world large enough for that many people
nohbdy : the technology isn't what makes games break up into shards... some people feel that just because it can be done it should be done though
Gebron : : Jent4ii: The technology of a "single server" really isn't that hard. I totally agree with nohbdy
Gebron : : The "size" of a world is critical. You want a world to feel large, but a three dimentional world gets larger at a GEOMETRIC rate. A 3000km x 3000km world needs a number of people playing that is likely impossible to attain, so everyone is basically playing "Multiplayer Solitaire".

Kiranth : Gebron: We read in woody's article ( http://www.gucomics.com/sigil_visit.php ) that one small piece of map was the size of EQ's entire map. How do you plan to make the content to fit this large of a world, without making it feel "empty" like say SWG
Kiranth : http://www.gucomics.com/news/sigil_visit.php <--- right link. Stupid me.
Gebron : : Kirath: Ve haf our veys.... muwahaha. Honestly, we do it by playing the game. Alot. We walk from place to place as we design the content asking ourselves "Is the world full enough?" "Am I bored?" "Is this fun?!" We tune, and retune, and refactor, and retune. =)

Maleficence : Gebron: how comprehensive will the physics of the gamewolrd be?
Gebron : : Maleficence: We are continually "playing" with how modern physics code can work in an MMOG. We don't want to be cheezy, or use the technology simply because it exists. We want it to make sense in context. In a game where people are playing for 30+ hours a week, something that looks "cute" the first time you see it is only going to make you go bonkers the three millionth. "Oh look, the monster flew into a million pieces scatter

Kiranth : Last question from me and then I'll stop being a question whore... how many pages of code is the world so far? hehehe
Gebron : : Kirath: Enough that printing the code out would cause a protest from Greenpeace.

Arnie : Gebron: When ya gonna invite us over for a sleep over/ LAN party?
Gebron : : Arnie: You scare me.

yd : seemless or not, the question still stands
yd : the world can be seemless while still having "regions" ( new name for zones if you don't like the word ) are designed separately and individually, each with their own lore and artwork and mobs and the such
Gebron : : yd: There are regions with their own "lore", of course. They're not broken into "zones" like EQ, however. You CAN think of EQ as having larger maps with "regions" that just happen to translate into zones, though... so they're very similar in that respect.

jent4ii : eq lore has more contradictions than the bible
jent4ii : will you guys make an effort to make sure that things don't conflict story-wise?
Gebron : : Jent4ii: I think that effort is always made, even on EQ. But try writing a book with 30+ authors. You'd be suprised at what you get in the end.

MelissaMoonPatrol : gebron, do you believe there to be a shortage of good coders out in the industry now? or are there many we just dont hear about
Gebron : : Melissa: I think there is the perception of a shortage of good coders... the reality is likely that the GOOD coders are too busy writing GOOD code to be recognised. They aren't on TV or going to trade shows or doing self-promotion because they're hard at work behind a keyboard. =)

MorbidDeath : please tell me your sticking with keyboard movement and not point and click
Gebron : : Morbid: Configuration junkie. See above.

Gebron : : Well guys, I have a line outside the office now. I think we're going to get another CodeMonkeyChat session going soon because of the car trouble... so I'll have some more insane answers for you then. =)

AbigaleSGO :: Thanks Geb
Gebron : : Hey no problem! Wish I could be on more... but I'm trying to make this game for you guys..heh.
Gebron : : Adios!
*** Gebron has quit IRC

[Jait]

jent4ii : eq lore has more contradictions than the bible
jent4ii : will you guys make an effort to make sure that things don't conflict story-wise?
Gebron : : Jent4ii: I think that effort is always made, even on EQ. But try writing a book with 30+ authors. You'd be suprised at what you get in the end.

That's utter bullshit. How can people so into computers forget a little thing called *PAPER*. Create a story arc from start to finish. Hand this out to your content people, and make them use it. It's so damn simple I want to scream when I say a statement like the above.

There are 10,000+ freaking Star Wars authors and none of them run into these problems unless they're lazy or just plain stupid.

Sigil has the potential to beat the hell out of any mmorpg out there, but please for gods sake don't make the same innane mistakes that we're made in EQ.

I refuse to believe there's not one person on that staff that doesn't know Storywriting 101 and the creation of arcs. When done properly you can use as many authors as you want and not have any problems down the road, it's so very simple.

[Iannis]

I am forced to concur.

A statement like that coming from the Lead Coder makes you do a big conan obrien 'HYUH?'.

But, he was tired and it's not really his concern anyway so he can be forgiven. And most people playing EQ would be hard pressed to care any less about the lore anyhow. I doubt that would change with a new game. So even if he wasn't tired, he can be forgiven I suppose.

[Ayeshala]

Create a story arc from start to finish. Hand this out to your content people, and make them use it. It's so damn simple I want to scream when I say a statement like the above.

I doubt that's the part of the work Gebron was talking about. It looks like he was talking about the part after your 10 or 20+ designers have been handed the ''story bible'' by whoever wrote the broad strokes of the story; that's when the challenge of coordinating your storyline(s) come in.

Not that it's impossible or that they should'nt do better than they did in Everquest; I'm just not convinced it's as easy as you think it is.

[frott]

Dude specifically said "try writing a book with 30 authors."

Which is bullshit, because guess what, there are things in the world that is bigger than a book or *gasp* a MMORPG that really requires a team of 50-100, hell, 1,000 people.

Try drafting a 2,250 page plan for an integrated insurance website for a global financial institution. That's done with way more than 30 authors, and it costs billions of dollars if the p's and q's aren't minded.

A friend of mine is a lawyer for the UN. He talks about how hundreds of people argue for months over *1 word* in a two page list of SUGGESTIONS for things like reparations, you know, if we bomb some iraqi child on accident do we "give" the family a bag of rice or do we "offer" it. how about "allow"? "Supply"?

For real, the smallest violin and the saddest song are being played by a crippled baby jesus.

The story itself is easy. I read a good story that doesn't break the star trek arc where Kirk bones Spock. Ooh. Aah. It was prob written by some morbidly overweight "tweenager" and he did a damn good job of it. full-mast material. I wonder why 30 people are writing the story, actually.


The problem is when a company decides it isn't "Cost Effective" to put the labor into making the story "make sense," difficult or not,
releases some shitball head-scratcher, makes bags of money, then states "it's hard making a story!"

Like, eat a dick! Cut into your profit margin a bit there, chumly.

"They" want you to believe it's severing a limb or, far worse, cutting into operating margins.... suckers, the whole lot of us.

[Aulirophile]

He has a point. Isn't only one person at Blizzard the guy who writes all the lore and history for Warcraft? And all the manuals for the various games, Warcraft:Orcs and Humans, Warcraft 2, etc. contradict each other. Like is Lorderon and Azeroth one landmass or two?

Granted in each game the lore is great, the in-game story and the story in the manuals was always well written.

It would be a good idea, in my opinion, if the devs of an MMOPRG just hired someone, a professional writer, to write the entire background story of the world. Then you can have that person be your "Quest Master" or something, which is where most of the lore gets talked about by NPCs. They write about the quests to match the lore they wrote. I mean, everyone can think up a quest, but having it make sense in the context of the world is big plus.

...Hell, that sounds like a great full time position. If any MMORPG developers need someone like that give me a call. Wouldn't even have to pay me if I could reserve the right to publish all the lore I write as an actual series of books, and get the game for free.

[Dynalisia]

Like the guy in the interview says, making a single server for your entire player base isn't the problem. In fact, it has already been done by CCP's game EVE-online. Every thing that you do can possibly affect everyone that plays the game and I must say it provides for an interesting community.

However, EVE-online is more like a huge framework in which players can make their own content and it has a very small playerbase compared to anything big out there at the moment. This makes it a lot easier to implement the single server structure for the game itself than for an MMO that floats on dev-provided content. The more people play EVE, the more content they make for eachother, while the more people play a normal MMO the more the avarage player will be starved for/denied content.

[Xaen]

Fervor : How about Graphics sets in game where you can “Hotkey” different configurations for performance like for outdoors to “laggy” cities. A city set would have a lower rez, no shading, etc.
Gebron : : Fervor: We are planning on having in-game configuration adjustments you can do on the fly. This will allow the "power gamer" more ability to control his performance without interrupting play. It's big on my list, because it aggrevates the BANANAS out of this code monkey when I have to quit other games.

I'm afraid if they're already hitting laggy 3D areas, or planning on it, then they need to dump everything they've done so far and start from scratch again.

People need to realise that with MMORPGs, you NEED totally "shit" graphics to have any sort of acceptable frame-rate. You cannot have 'OMG THAT LOOKS SO REAL! RAWK!!' graphics with 400 people all standing around.

Christ. Fuck.

One of the most annoying things in EQ right now is the totally shitastic overly done laggy ass graphics where you gotta slide your view distance in and out, turn names on and off, selectively use certain models, etc etc .. It's all bullshit. It needs to be tossed out entirely and something that will run a solid framerate at all times, now, and in the future can be used.

Cut down those freaking polys, make people blocks for fuck sakes. As long as we get over 30fps in a full 150 person uber-zerg-raid then it'll be OKAY.

Edit: I am really tired at staring at a fucking wall 90% of the time on raids. Honestly. Fuck everyone who wants glamour over gameplay. Fuck you all right in the ass.

[Tuco]

Cut down those freaking polys, make people blocks for fuck sakes. As long as we get over 30fps in a full 150 person uber-zerg-raid then it'll be OKAY.

Concurrence!

WoW's models probably use close to the same polygons as the original EQ models, seriously...

I love that about WoW, hopefully the people with the alpha can get it to where they can add NPCs so they can see how the engine performs with 100+ characters in the game.

Edit: I would even mind using 2 dimensional characters like sprites(you know, the things they used in duke nukem 2 or something) to help frame rates!

[Ayeshala]

People need to realise that with MMORPGs, you NEED totally "shit" graphics to have any sort of acceptable frame-rate.

Seems to me the configuration hotkeys take care of that problem. You're alone in some dungeon, press the ''Max everything'' hotkey. You're in a raid with 30-36 people around (please god make it so that's the upper limit) and you press the ''Shit Graphics'' hotkey.

[Xaen]

Originally posted by Ayeshala
Seems to me the configuration hotkeys take care of that problem. You're alone in some dungeon, press the ''Max everything'' hotkey. You're in a raid with 30-36 people around (please god make it so that's the upper limit) and you press the ''Shit Graphics'' hotkey.

This is a stupid idea. I do not want to have to change graphics constantly where I can only see 5 feet in front of my fucking face. The engine and models need to be designed so I can use max clip distance with hundreds of people on the screen without making my 3Ghz machine take a flaming pile of shit. It CAN be done, its just that stupid 'OMG I WANT AWESOME DOOM3 GRAPHICS OR IT SUX0r!!@!$#!' punks keep insisting on ruining gameplay for fucking prettyboy bullshit.

And even if raids were limited to an amount, people will do what they did in EQ before the raid command, or what they do NOW when you go over 72 people - YOU MAKE MORE RAIDS.

People are going to have an assload of friends coming to these games, they better be prepared to handle guild rosters of 100+ people at a time. If not, good fucking luck trying to sell the piece of shit game!

[Ayeshala]

People are going to have an assload of friends coming to these games, they better be prepared to handle guild rosters of 100+ people at a time. If not, good fucking luck trying to sell the piece of shit game!

? I very much doubt there is such a thing as a guild of 100+ friends. I bet most people will be happy to play a game that don't require them to put up a false smile and pretend they get along with all 80-90 of the people that make up their guild roster.

Making it so the average raiding guild does not need more than around 30ish people online to raid stuff does not seem to me as a detriment to a game but rather a selling point.

And even if raids were limited to an amount, people will do what they did in EQ before the raid command, or what they do NOW when you go over 72 people - YOU MAKE MORE RAIDS.

Do you mean make more raids in the sense of having a group of people splinter from the main group and go raid something else entirely, or create a second smaller raid that tags along with the first?

The engine and models need to be designed so I can use max clip distance with hundreds of people on the screen without making my 3Ghz machine take a flaming pile of shit.

Not everyone has a top of the line machine. Hotkeys that allow you to quickly switch between different graphical configs are quite useful to people with average/low-end computers.

[DorianBrytestar]

Pretty graphics gets you in the door. Good gameplay keeps you.


Hi, I'm the player that wants stuff to look good AND be fast. You want to make excuses and want to look at square blocks to have fun, go for it. I expect and require more from my games. Maybe you had just as much enjoyment out of playing with rocks pretending they were cars, but I rather like my matchbox cars to look like, well, cars.

[Tuco]

Making it so the average raiding guild does not need more than around 30ish people online to raid stuff does not seem to me as a detriment to a game but rather a selling point.

If something can be done with 30 elite troops, it can and WILL be done with 60+ unorganized troops.

The best way to defeat this is to artificially limit how many players can fight in an event, sometimes it seems that lag/server load/machine load etc was this limit, but in future games, perhaps they need something more robust(How many players fought against the sleeper?)

I suppose limiting how many people can go on a raid in an instanced dungeon might work, but that brings problems of its own.

I don't intend on upgrading my machine by the time Sigil's game comes out, and my specs will be below their minimum, so if I can't play it, I won't, I'll be playing WoW instead.

They need to make their engines more scalable, there is a huge market of people who don't think they have enough power to work with the game. Sigil should know that once people get a new game, they care about the graphics for 10 minutes, then turn everything off, if it's good for their machine...

[DorianBrytestar]

Tuco, did they say what their min reqs would be?


I hadn't seen that anywhere.