The dumbing-down of EQ

[Angrier]

How many here think EQ takes skill to play? Or rather, that there is a big difference between a skilled player and a half-afk 12 year old dumbass? I used to say, EQ only takes time, not skill. Well, as EQ changes, it changes more and more to this time > skill mentality. Look at the new monk FD aa... now instead of using even a miniscule amount of brain activity to pull 10 casting mobs, and read their casting messages, look at their spell effects, try to predict when their spell would land, deal with line of sight... throw all those details out the window. Instead, spend some time, get some aa, and FD whenever you want with almost no adverse results.

I am pointing to that as only one example of how EQ has changed from the beginning. Yeah, remember the mage and necro pets breaking mez? Not anymore. Your pet breaks mez, blame it on game mechanics. No more paying attention to controlling your pet -- it is done for you. So now, how will you tell the difference between a skilled mage in your group and complete moron with pet hold aa? I suppose all this will tie in with the proposed character selling by SoE.

Anyway, the whole point of this post being, I think that many people besides me enjoy a challanging game where skill makes a difference. Not only gear and AA (read: time invested) but the tactical choices you make as well, if I can even use that terminology in EQ anymore. And this dumbing-down of a game so the lowest common denominator can enjoy it and be just as successful... well, look at what happened to Counter-Strike. Different game, same progression principle - dumb it down, deny the advantage of any tactics a skilled player might come up with.

On the off-chance that some decision-making person working on WoW reads this, just don't let this happen to WoW when it becomes popular and all the 14 year olds swarm to it and complain complain complain until pets don't break mez, and spells don't break FD.

[Xaen]

Your example was bad. Monks still dont pull. Ever.

They just survive wipes.

Sometimes.

Only way they'll ever be made to pull again is if they have innate single pulling with thrown items without having to FD. Even then it's probably not worth it.

The dumbing down isn't so much as the totally breaking of classes by adding stupid abilities to other classes that should never have been given in the first place. Waters down the whole mess.

[Yermum Onceme]

I think what you want is a "harder" game.

Perhaps it's because I play on the noob server, but there are many many players who possess a noticeable lack of skill. It is easy to tell when that mage or necro sucks, even if his pet doesn't break mezzes.

Everquest may not be challenging, but skill does make a big difference.

[EverquestCritic]

Your example is also bad because monks timing spells to land doesnt take much skill at all ethier.

Timing something doesnt take skill, you have to understand this

The only skill people have in Everquest is the ability to keep on going after kill after kill after kill

[Goanad]

I dont think the guy has ever actually played a mage or a monk...

Just pulling shit outta his ass to try and make a point.

[Angrier]

I have never pulled for a guild as a monk, though I have played both classes. If you insist on pointing out the flaws in my examples... go ahead, put your time into it. I play a necro, and have split/pulled many times using FD with casters on me. In fact, having casters on me casting spells, and breaking aggro from them is the only thing which involves skill in FD pulling, all the more so when FD has a cast time.

Timing is not skill you say? Go ahead, make your own definition of skill, and see if EQ now requires more of it, or less of it than it did before.

[Drizzi]

the good eq player thing is probably more about knowledge than skill.

[Sanaleb]

There is no such thing as "skill" in PvE games. Its all memorization (of pathing, of # of mobs, of what a mob hits for, etc. etc.). The only way you can have skill is by performing PvP in said game, whatever it may be.

But if you want to say memorizing glitches or statistics in a game takes skill, then I guess EQ and other PvE games can take "skill" by definition.

Me personally I would go with the first one. The guild that memorizes scripts that do the exact same fucking thing every single time is not skill. Skill is the player that wins the best of the best, the WC3 player that wins world cyber games. Or the CS team that consistantly rapes, etc. I guess I'm biased but I don't consider "beating" AI that was written by a human skillful until our AI gets better by leaps and bounds and can adapt instead of just the, "keke I'll attack this one warrior standing in the corner while people chain heal him for half an hour until I eventually die" shit that we have now.

[Goanad]

I like "knowledge" versus "skill".....

Skill could be some kind of measure of reaction times, etc(twitch skill). There's a bit of that in pulling for certain, but overwhelmingly it's knowledge and experience.

The reason I posted in the first place was that whenever I see someone say "EQ has been dumbed down" the first thing I ask if for whom? Lower levels, mid levels, all levels, raiders, casual players, hardcore, or what?

Exactly WHAT has been dumbed down. Absent any of that specificity I figure someone's just blowing shit outta the spincter(sp? sue me).

[Iszwuun]

giving monks the ability to avoid broken feigns isn't dumbing down EQ.

Causing hellishly annoying messages every time you click a mob that says you can consider by right clicking (i'm sorry, i need to be told this EVERY TIME?) is dumbing down EQ. and the gay bug that causes the option to turn itself on randomly is as annoying as those gay preorder popups.

[Ukerric]

Originally posted by Sanaleb
There is no such thing as "skill" in PvE games.

Go play outside of your raiding guild and with a mid-level character (30s), not playing solo/PLed by guildmates. You will see.

It might be impossible to find skill in players... but it is very easy to find the ones that don't have any skill at all. And there are plenty of them.


If someone can do it, and someone obviously cannot, then the difference between the two persons is skill.

[Goanad]

the gay bug that causes the option to turn itself on randomly is as annoying as those gay preorder popups.

Amen.

Now that's something worth bitching about $$$ I hate that shit. I log on Saturday and find that for who knows why, all my UIs need redone. That's shit too.

Let Jimmy have his dumbed down EQ....if it means they can spend more time fixing this other crap.

[Balek]

EQ has been dumbed down for years now, this isn't a new trend. This topic has been discussed a couple times now, with the majorit of the people who come to this site agreeing they want a harder game.

The fact is EQ is now a gigantic money maker, and the top 10, even 20% doesn't matter as much as the majority. The majority being people who have time to play 4-8 hours a week. These people can now group with someone who plays 20-30 hours a week (thanks to AA instead of normal levels). These people can have friends or spouses join and be able to get their character up to 65 within a month. The fact that someone with 300 days played who has a large knowledge base can group with someone with 7 days played and no knowledge is evidence enough this game isn't about difficulty or skill anymore.

If you think Sony is going to make a 180 and start seperating the men from the boys, you have another thing comming. Gone are the days of doing a /who all 60 and seeing ONLY the best of the best.

[kasey]

My way of adding more spice to the game was boxing other accounts and going to a zek server.I dont like pvp with several chars,just for grind and xp and may be duo on raids (if my guild lets me ofc).

[mangina]

I have a 65ench and a 56 cleric. my enchanter grew up in sebilis and mezzing 4 - 8 mobs a pull. i cant stand playing my cleric sometimes because the new enchanters grew up on ldon and PoP, and are used to mezzing 2 max - and anything over that they gate or run.