Writers' Strike, Cont: Studios Back Out of Negotiations

[Zeste]

Originally Posted by Cad

You don't need flat screen TV's, Benzes, Computers and Internet, and 16 hours of leisure time per day to be "making it" in the USA. It is absolutely 100% possible to live within your means making $25k/yr (well below median) and raise a family.

My wife's family arrived in the US with nothing in 1979, through hard work 3 of her siblings are in medical school, she has an MBA and is doing great; father is basically a machinist and her mother has always been a homemaker.

Yet you say it's not possible to improve your lot in life in this country.

I say it's nothing more complicated than stupidity, stupidly using your funds, stupidly allocating your time and stupidly inattentive to the things that will allow you to succeed. You can't fix stupidity through social programs. The US is fine.

How am I supposed to level my Warlock?

[Szlia]

Originally Posted by Yutnopash

Elisberg writes...

He is probably right, but it could also be that they had 5 press releases ready depending on the outcome of the negociations.

[Kuriin]

Originally Posted by Cad

You don't need flat screen TV's, Benzes, Computers and Internet, and 16 hours of leisure time per day to be "making it" in the USA. It is absolutely 100% possible to live within your means making $25k/yr (well below median) and raise a family.

My wife's family arrived in the US with nothing in 1979, through hard work 3 of her siblings are in medical school, she has an MBA and is doing great; father is basically a machinist and her mother has always been a homemaker.

While it is possible, it is very difficult. Please note, your family arrived in the 70s and early 80s. Things are much more expensive now than when they were a couple/few decades ago.

[Kolle]

Originally Posted by Cad

You don't need flat screen TV's, Benzes, Computers and Internet, and 16 hours of leisure time per day to be "making it" in the USA. It is absolutely 100% possible to live within your means making $25k/yr (well below median) and raise a family.

My wife's family arrived in the US with nothing in 1979, through hard work 3 of her siblings are in medical school, she has an MBA and is doing great; father is basically a machinist and her mother has always been a homemaker.

Yet you say it's not possible to improve your lot in life in this country.

I say it's nothing more complicated than stupidity, stupidly using your funds, stupidly allocating your time and stupidly inattentive to the things that will allow you to succeed. You can't fix stupidity through social programs. The US is fine.

The problem with this thinking is that it focuses on an individual. Yes, an individual can improve their life. The entire country cannot regardless of intelligence or planning. The only way this could happen is if you magically double or triple wages for millions of jobs while making inflation not exist. There are a limited number of good jobs. Even if 100% of people study and plan correctly, someone will still be working all the low paying jobs with no benefits. As of right now, in order for you to succeed someone else has to fail.

This doesn't even touch the subject of undeserved wealth. I'm certain every person on this thread can name off several people that are wealthy and didn't do shit to earn it. Meanwhile there are many more people who suffer in poverty despite their best efforts. What I'm getting at is that there are certain things everyone should have. It should not matter what your job is. We have a serious problem in this country and what some of the writers go through is a perfect example of it.

[Cad]

Originally Posted by Kolle

The problem with this thinking is that it focuses on an individual. Yes, an individual can improve their life. The entire country cannot regardless of intelligence or planning. The only way this could happen is if you magically double or triple wages for millions of jobs while making inflation not exist. There are a limited number of good jobs. Even if 100% of people study and plan correctly, someone will still be working all the low paying jobs with no benefits. As of right now, in order for you to succeed someone else has to fail.

This doesn't even touch the subject of undeserved wealth. I'm certain every person on this thread can name off several people that are wealthy and didn't do shit to earn it. Meanwhile there are many more people who suffer in poverty despite their best efforts. What I'm getting at is that there are certain things everyone should have. It should not matter what your job is. We have a serious problem in this country and what some of the writers go through is a perfect example of it.

My point, which you missed, was that "poverty" in this country is entirely livable if you manage your money intelligently, don't waste on vices, and do just a tiny bit of planning. Living outside of their means is the biggest reason people have no money, regardless of income level. The number of $30k a year millionaires in every city of this country are ridiculous.

[Leto Eu`Acumen]

Originally Posted by Cad

The number of $30k a year millionaires in every city of this country are ridiculous.

I think, personally, I have met about as many of those as I have Leprechauns.

[chaos]

heh, for every millionaire making 30k a year I bet I could find at least 100k who can barely make ends meet, if that. Shit, I bet I could find more than 100k.

[Kolle]

Originally Posted by Cad

My point, which you missed, was that "poverty" in this country is entirely livable if you manage your money intelligently, don't waste on vices, and do just a tiny bit of planning. Living outside of their means is the biggest reason people have no money, regardless of income level. The number of $30k a year millionaires in every city of this country are ridiculous.

being homeless is livable. there's a lot of things a person can live through. the issue is standard of living.

but let's say millions of americans took this advice. this would result in a tremendous reduction in spending. guess what that would mean? millions of other people would suddenly be without a job or at the very least would become poor.


but i guess we could argue over standard of living. in my opinion this includes complete health coverage, food, decent housing etc...but there are plenty of people who don't give a shit if a poor person can get medical care or a good meal.

[Arbitrary]

How does one learn to intelligently manage money? How does one obtain good spending habits?

A poor environment and lacking education strike again!

[Cad]

$30k millionaire doesn't mean they're literally a millionaire and making $30k, jesus christ. It means they make $30k and try to LIVE LIKE a millionaire, vastly outspending their income.

And Kolle, you're basically saying debt spending is the only thing keeping the country alive. I disagree; people live with a lot of debt, but it's mostly due to idiocy not necessity. Personally I have 0 debt. My house is paid for, both my cars are paid for, and I'm paying cash for my tuition.

[Kolle]

what i'm saying is that it's impossible for every citizen to live decently.

you mention that you own a house and two cars. you have 0 debt. that is simply not possible for everyone even if they took the same actions as you. when i say everyone, I mean everyone at the same time. not on an individual basis.

[chaos]

Originally Posted by Cad

$30k millionaire doesn't mean they're literally a millionaire and making $30k, jesus christ. It means they make $30k and try to LIVE LIKE a millionaire, vastly outspending their income.

You act like anyone could possibly take that from what you said, this is the internet, inflection is missing. Even then, that's meaningless conjecture. I could still show you families scraping by on 30k a year. I could show you military families on food stamps. In fact, i can't remember ever meeting anyone who could live like that.

[Leto Eu`Acumen]

I think what bothers me is the disparity between folks in different situations.

(Not picking on you Cad, just an easy example), but say you have a person whose wife has an MBA.....You have a college educated, multi-income household. That puts you at pretty comfortable income level in this country. At that income level, provided there is no foolish spending going on you can reasonably expect to own a home and a couple of cars. You can even indulge in such luxuries like Health Insurance and a no-shit retirement plan.

Then you have someone else who lives in a single-income household. High School Graduate supplemented by some kind of post-high school vocational training - perhaps enough to get into the health care field or such. They don't have enough income to qualify for a home loan at todays prices so they are not buying, they are renting. They have a car payment, they have to take care of at least one child. If they are lucky enough to have a health insurance option at work, it costs about an 1/8th of their income. Their 401(k) plan is anorexic because they don't have enough assets to contribute to it. And all this without building up credit card debt because the person is smart enough to be terrified of the interest rates. They avoid credit card debt, but they also have no income to devote to savings. This person knows what it means to live paycheck to paycheck.

Call straw-man if you like, but there are a hell of a lot of people in this country that for one reason or another are in that second category, and have no idea what to do about it.

Yes, there are tons of people who have zero clue about living within a budget and avoiding debt, but there are also a hell of a lot of people who do work very hard and do the best they can and still don't get ahead.

Not everyone who doesn't own their own home is stupid.

[Cad]

Originally Posted by Leto Eu`Acumen

I think what bothers me is the disparity between folks in different situations.

(Not picking on you Cad, just an easy example), but say you have a person whose wife has an MBA.....You have a college educated, multi-income household.

Well, not right now, I'm in school and paying $40k/yr in tuition. One income.

Originally Posted by Leto Eu`Acumen

That puts you at pretty comfortable income level in this country. At that income level, provided there is no foolish spending going on you can reasonably expect to own a home and a couple of cars. You can even indulge in such luxuries like Health Insurance and a no-shit retirement plan.

Health insurance costs us like $50/mo. "Luxury" indeed.

Originally Posted by Leto Eu`Acumen

Then you have someone else who lives in a single-income household. High School Graduate supplemented by some kind of post-high school vocational training - perhaps enough to get into the health care field or such.

Like my father in law. Machinist. One income. Four kids.

Originally Posted by Leto Eu`Acumen

They don't have enough income to qualify for a home loan at todays prices so they are not buying, they are renting.

Thats retarded. They're simply overbuying a home if they don't have enough income to qualify, or they're living in a too-expensive city or section of town. Around DFW there is plenty of housing in the $65-90k range that you can live in, and the payments on that are less than renting most apartments. Again, your fictional idiots are simply living beyond their means. My father in laws first place was a duplex they bought (not rented) for something like $27k. Was it nice? NO. But they were immigrants with no money, what do you expect? Don't live beyond your means!

Originally Posted by Leto Eu`Acumen

They have a car payment, they have to take care of at least one child. If they are lucky enough to have a health insurance option at work, it costs about an 1/8th of their income.

Out of your mind. Father in law has full health insurance as a blue collar hourly worker and I think it costs him somewhere between $150-200 a month. He has FOUR kids to take care of, and no car payments. He buys cheap cars and works on them himself.

Originally Posted by Leto Eu`Acumen

Their 401(k) plan is anorexic because they don't have enough assets to contribute to it. And all this without building up credit card debt because the person is smart enough to be terrified of the interest rates. They avoid credit card debt, but they also have no income to devote to savings. This person knows what it means to live paycheck to paycheck.

Now this part I'll agree with; I don't think my in laws have any meaningful retirement funds. They do have 3 kids in medical school though, and us, which means they will be taken care of. They've taken care of us in many ways and we'll be repaying that debt.

Originally Posted by Leto Eu`Acumen

Call straw-man if you like, but there are a hell of a lot of people in this country that for one reason or another are in that second category, and have no idea what to do about it.

I'll definitely agree with the no idea what to do about it part. They need to learn to live within their means.

Originally Posted by Leto Eu`Acumen

Yes, there are tons of people who have zero clue about living within a budget and avoiding debt, but there are also a hell of a lot of people who do work very hard and do the best they can and still don't get ahead.

What are you saying, there's lots of stupid people out there? I agree.

Originally Posted by Leto Eu`Acumen

Not everyone who doesn't own their own home is stupid.

Okay, but most are.

[Yutnopash]

Meanwhile in the land of the Writer's strike.

The AMPTP keeps on trucking trying to damage control their image and the WGA filed a suit with the NLRB for the ultimatum they issued and then walking.

Edit: Also... AMPTP It's a mock AMPTP site some comedy writer's put together, which, made the real AMPTP change up their website etc..

December 10, 2007

We are heartbroken to report that despite our best efforts, including sending them a muffin basket, making them a mix CD, and standing outside their window with a boombox blasting Peter Gabriel songs, our talks with the WGA have broken down. Quite frankly, we're puzzled as to why this happened. We talked about it all the way home – after we walked into their hotel room, slapped our list of demands on the table and abruptly left the negotiating session – and none of us could figure out what went wrong.

While we're not going to point fingers or assign blame, we do feel justified in saying that they are entirely at fault. The AMPTP has successfully concluded 306 major agreeements with unions since its founding in 1982, and there has never been an incident like this. Except for that writers' strike in 1985. And the directors' strike in 1987. And that other writers' strike in 1988. Aside from three isolated incidents, however, this strike is completely without precedent.

We believe our New Economic Partnership™ proposal – under which the average salary for writers making between $220,000 and $240,000 would be $230,000 – is the single greatest document since the Magna Carta. And we have proved, over the last five months, that we want writers to participate in producers' revenues. Mostly by repeatedly saying, "we want writers to participate in producers' revenues." Still, we must be clear: Under no circumstances will we knowingly participate in the destruction of this business. If we destroy this business, it will only be through accident and incompetence – that's the AMPTP Pledge®!

While the WGA's members can clearly stage rallies, concerts and mock exorcisms, maintain unity in a large and diverse workforce, gain the support of a majority of the general public, prompt a sharp dip in our stock prices, derail half a dozen major movies and force us to refund advertisers' money after they learn that they'll be getting "American Gladiators" instead of "Chuck," we question their ability to get things done. It is now absolutely clear that the WGA's organazis are determined to advance their own personal ideologies, political agendas, sexual preferences, barbaric tribal customs, canine wardrobe choices, religious beliefs and blood rituals upon working writers and other working persons who depend on our work industry for their work.

Instead of negotiating, the WGA organizateurs have made demands, then expected us to counter with our demands, and for them to adjust their demands, and for us to do likewise, until we reach a mutually acceptable resolution in some sort of "give-and-take" process. Needless to say, we consider this to be a roadblock to progress (of both boldface and italic proportions). Thus, we have asked that they withdraw these demands:
# They demand full control over reality and animation programming, despite the fact that neither genre requires any writing at all. It is, after all, a well-documented fact that "Flavor of Love" is a Frederick Wiseman documentary about a man who happens to be choosing a bride from among 20 whores, and that "Family Guy" is entirely improvised by a cast of extremely precocious illustrations.

# The WGA is demanding the right to join in strikes of other labor organizations. This is simply unacceptable, as we plan on gutting the contracts of many other unions in the upcoming year.

# Their proposal for Internet compensation could doom the Internet media business before it ever gets started. (Projected start date: October 4, 2012.) We have already offered the writers a very generous $250 per episode for using their work on the Internet. Sure, $250 may not sound like much, but it adds up – a whole season of "Heroes" would cost NBC.com nearly $6,000! Who's going to pay that money? Go look at at the "Heroes" web site – unless you count Nissan, Cisco, Sprint, and American Express, nobody's willing to step up and advertise on such a risky and unproven medium. And who knows how much longer those fly-by-night operations will be around? (I mean, have you seen the Nissan Rogue? It looks like a Pontiac Aztek fucked a PT Cruiser, am I right?)

# The writers are demanding that, when we sell content within our own companies, we have a neutral third party ensure that we aren't deflating the price in order to cheat them out of their share. This lack of trust hurts, quite frankly, especially after all we've done for writers over the years. I mean, we've stuck with them through thick and thin – even going so far as to bankroll their unprofitable vanity projects, like Forrest Gump, Lord of the Rings, and My Big Fat Greek Wedding.

In summary, the writers are demanding respect they haven't earned, privileges they don't deserve, and money for work they haven't done. And those are perquisites we reserve solely for the severance packages of departing CEOs. Simply creating a hit show isn't enough – if they want tens of millions of dollars, they will have to earn them by driving a company so far into the ground that it's worth $85 million to shareholders to be rid of them.

We urge the WGA's pedophorganizers to abandon their Quixotic pursuit of radical demands. We will not let you tilt at windmills. (We have placed all studio windmills under heavy security). The fact of the matter is, we're going to win this thing. We've got enough material to wait out the strike. On the feature side, we've got great scripts ready to shoot. How do we know they're great? Because they were already hits! Get ready for "Talladega Nights" starring Dane Cook! Wait until you see "Titanic" with Keira Knightley and Zac Efron! And on the TV side, we've got enough reality shows to choke a horse. Literally – one of the shows is "Can You Choke This Horse?" And for the fall, we're already working on "Can You Choke This Horse With the Stars?" (Pepsi, you want a logo on the horse? Consider it done.)

We look forward to hearing from the WGA. Once they've unilaterally dropped the majority of their demands and acceded to our wishes, we look forward to having a full and frank exchange of ideas with them.