Writers' Strike, Cont: Studios Back Out of Negotiations

[Faille]

The DGA announcement looks promising. Can't wait to find out more details of the sort of deal they are looking to make.

[Burf]

Is there anything preventing me from walking in to the studios and getting a job as a writer? (Let's pretend that I'd be good at it....just play along)

I mean, the studios could still hire people, right? Except that I might get sniped on my way in the door, the studios could just refuse to ever hire everyone in the WGA and go out and hire individuals who aren't affiliated with the guild, no?

[Szlia]

Originally Posted by Dandai

[...]Ponder for a moment what Hollywood would be like without this writer's union and writers weren't dependent on a union to get a job. Freelance writers could approach the studio with ideas or work they've done and get hired on based on their ability and the need of the studio.

If NBC doesn't want to pay Joe Writer as much as Joe Writer wants to get paid then Joe Writer doesn't have to work at NBC.

If NBC hires Jane Writer (who isn't as talented as Joe Writer) and their shows/ratings/advertisers suffer because of Jane Writer's craptastic performance, they'll realize that they need to hire Joe Writer, even if he does want to get paid more, or risk going out of business.

Jane Writer still has her place in low-budget projects, but Joe Writer gets what is proportionate to his ability (which I assume is at the heart of this strike - not enough $$).

I don't see much mythical about that.

What's mythical about that is thinking there is no Jack Writer who is as talented as Joe Writer, if not more, and yet is so psyched by the idea of working for Hollywood that he is ready to be paid one peanut per episode.

Counterbalancing the appliance of the holy suply and demand rule to people is also why unions exist.

And to address Lithose point, I am not sure what that number mean. All the employees of a company do not have to be in the/a union for the union(s) to have negociating weight. That said it is certainly true that unions in the US never had the strength they had, and often still have, in other countries (I am using broad strokes here, obviously in some american industries unions had or have a lot of power). The result is a significantly lower standard for work conditions accross the board.

[Faille]

Originally Posted by Burf

Is there anything preventing me from walking in to the studios and getting a job as a writer? (Let's pretend that I'd be good at it....just play along)

I mean, the studios could still hire people, right? Except that I might get sniped on my way in the door, the studios could just refuse to ever hire everyone in the WGA and go out and hire individuals who aren't affiliated with the guild, no?

If they want to give up their signatory status them I'm sure they could. would mean not being able to hire the most talented writers, directors, actors, or any other guilds. Sounds like a super recipe for a successful studio.

[Gaereth]

Unions definitely had their place at one time. When companies could do anything they wanted and nobody would do anything about it. But in todays world that really isn't an issue. You have the pc crowd just waiting to jump all over people, the government all over stuff, the news agencies just waiting for a juicy story, and lawyers willing to sue people at the drop of a hat.

That letter from the guy about why they wanted unions just shows me how stupid people are. If a company is breaking labor laws....report em...sue....get people involved. Hell, we get stories daily about how Joebob the idiot wasn't getting paid the full amount and "Special News Report at 11". As someone else said....self oppression doesn't mean someone else should fix it. If you want health insurance work someplace that either gives it to you or pays you enough to get it. If you want to get paid for the hours you work either get someone involved that can fix it or find a job that will do so.

Personal choice and responsibility.

-sniff- "I am forced to work here against my will without benefits and I don't get paid for the time I spend here....they force me....against my will..." -sniff-

Bullshite

[Kolle]

A lot of people don't have a choice. They can't quit their current job and somehow walk into another one that pays double with benefits. They can't afford to miss even one paycheck or their homeless and their kids go hungry.

There is a serious problem in the US with work pay. How does it make sense that our country was better 50 years ago than it is today? Shouldn't we be improving instead of regressing? You could support a family of 4 on the man's paycheck. Even if you didn't have a good job, you could still have a smaller family and do just fine. Nowadays if you aren't lucky enough to have a great paying job then you and your wife is gonna have to work...a lot.

The attitude I think most well-off americans have is demonstrated by Bush's comments a few years back. This poor woman mentioned having to work 3 jobs to support herself and her kids and somehow Bush thinks that's awesome.


You can't simply have the attitude that people can just get better jobs. It's not possible for the country to do that. It doesn't matter if someone gets ahead by hard work...the old, crappy job they held is still there and still needs to be done. There are a finite amount of a good paying jobs and that number is far lower than the population number.

You KNOW someone is gonna have to scrub those toilets. Someone will be digging those ditches. It's the wrong attitude to think those people with those jobs deserve to be poor. Someone has to do those jobs so if you have such an attitude you want there to be lots of poor people who can't support themselves.

This is what makes me hate american companies so much. The people at the top make too much money. They do not deserve that much while so many others go without.

[Gaereth]

I see sooo many people talk about how people can't do better, can't get better, can't live better.

Kolle...have you personally had an issue finding a better job or moving up when you decided it was time for you to do so?? Sure, it may have been difficult or hard, but can you honestly tell me that you are stuck someplace because you have no choices?

If you can do it...why are you so special?? Are you so special that others cannot emulate what you have done?

Just wondering.

I haven't ever had an issue finding or moving to something that I felt was better. I don't personally know of anyone that couldn't find something they felt was better. Yes...I know a few people that never look, never try, and constantly bitch about what they have. But of the people that actually put in the effort I do not know one that hasn't moved up when they wanted to.

Edit - I guess I find it odd that so many people are personally ok, haven't had issues with being and doing ok, yet seem to feel that so many people can't do what they have done. I always figure if someone else can do it then so can I, not that someone else must have been lucky, special, or has some sort of government intervention to succeed.

[Kolle]

It doesn't matter if a particular person does better for themselves. It's impossible for the majority of people. It cannot be done. Yes, you can pick out some people that are doing bad and there are ways for them to do better, but until you magically create 300 million well paying jobs then most people will not be able to do better...no matter how much they want to. There are a ton of bad and/or low paying jobs in the USA. There's only so many spots for good jobs. Someone will always be shoved down into the bad ones whether they deserve it or not.

The workers in our country, some writers included, need a lot of help.

[Aamina]

I thought I would be stuck in a cycle of bad retail jobs. And I am. But my wife, with a can-do attitude and good interviewing skills became a manager in less than six months at Old Navy. I'm not saying everyone can, or that its always fair, but I'm certainly saying if you're motivated and work hard even in a company you hate (like my wife does), you can be promoted and do well. She stayed on top of possible positions and jumped on one as soon as it came up, and now she does really well. No degree in anything, makes more than I would as a teacher. It may be hard, and there is luck involved, but dedication can get you a well-paying job with health insurance, stock options, and a 401k.

And btw, let Jack Writer work for one peanut per episode or script. He might love it for a week. But he won't love it forever. The number of people that are as talanted as Joe Writer who are willing to work for a peanut are limited, which is why writer's get paid more money then a bagboy.

And...to work in a company as a writer, you have to be part of the writer's union (well, you had to anyway before the strike). To work as a teacher, I have to join the Teacher's Union. To work at Vons, I have to join that stupid union. Even if it doesn't benefit me, I have to, and if it was up to me, I'd tell them to go fly a kite and work with no union.

[Arbitrary]

Best you can realistically hope for is +1 level of income from where you were born into.

[chaos]

I was born into poverty and am now firmly in upper-middle class, I own all sterotypes with my work ethic and dashing good looks.

[Gaereth]

Best you can realistically hope for is +1 level of income from where you were born into.

Well...if thats the best you can hope for you shouldn't even try....-rolls eyes-

Thats is hands down one of the most idiot sentences I have seen in a very long time.

egads...what about Microsoft, Dell, AOL, Google, Ebay and on for a dozen pages??? Hundreds and hundreds of very large companies that were started by people with dreams that now employ thousands and thousands of people. But yet....you won't succeed so don't try.

What about all the immigrants that enter this country and go up dozens of levels as they work their asses off and actually live the American dream??? I see lots of people bitch about these folks, about how they come here and suddenly get rich, drive nice cars and live in nice homes. Bitch bitch bitch. They came here and worked for their dream and now they are living it.

Its not lack of opportunity that causes people to get stuck in certain positions in their lives...its lack of work, drive, dream, etc, etc. The American dream isn't about the equality of life it is about the equality of opportunity. You have the opportunity to do better should you choose to take it.

Many don't. -shrug-

Why should I be concerned about those that either choose not to take advantage of what is available or are to stupid to realize there are options???

[Gaereth]

Originally Posted by Kolle

It doesn't matter if a particular person does better for themselves. It's impossible for the majority of people. It cannot be done. Yes, you can pick out some people that are doing bad and there are ways for them to do better, but until you magically create 300 million well paying jobs then most people will not be able to do better...no matter how much they want to. There are a ton of bad and/or low paying jobs in the USA. There's only so many spots for good jobs. Someone will always be shoved down into the bad ones whether they deserve it or not.

The workers in our country, some writers included, need a lot of help.

My point was that you did it. I have done it. We see dozens of people on this board that have done it. We both know dozens of people in RL that have done it. They know dozens of people that have done it. When you realistically look at it then you should start to realize that what your spouting is a big load of crap.

You are saying it is impossible yet just between the 2 of us we can come up with dozens of people easily. Sooo...whats true??

The lines you spout or the reality both of us have seen??

[chaos]

Michael Dell was born into an upper class jewish family, Bill Gates was dirty rich already, Google was started by Andy Bechtolsheim of Sun Microsystems fame, etc. Pierre Omidyar is basically the only person who fits your examples, with Ebay. Other than that, you kind of proved him right.

[Gaereth]

A few may have been from rich families...but wouldn't you say they are much better off than they were before??

How about the people they employ??

It isn't just about being the next Bill Gates it is also about being a well paid cog in the Bill Gates machine. For every Bill Gates out there he needs thousands and thousands of people from janitors to VPs. For someone that grew up on a farm a position of middle management at MS would be astounding.

Its not about just creating or building your own business its also about fitting into those businesses that someone else built. You don't have to be the head butt head to be wildly successful.