Writers' Strike, Cont: Studios Back Out of Negotiations

[Heylel Teomim]

Originally Posted by Jovec

I'm not sure if the numbers can be run on this, but I've heard that the majority of writers have already lost more money due to lack of wages than they stood to receive in increased royalties. It seems reasonable to me, excluding the writers of the larger hit movies and shows who probably aren't hurting for the extra $0.04 per DVD anyway.

DVD sales are only part of the issue. The AMPTP is trying to squeeze writers out of profits from online distribution as well. Look at the dozens of tv recorders, digital home theatres, etc on display at CES 2008. Producers can see the writing on the wall: online distribution is the wave of the future, not physical media. Yes, DVD profits are what matter *now*, but if they can squeeze writers out of online profits then they'll increase margins down the road.

There was a joke on Daily Show last night about how Viacom (I think) was saying how they had made 1.3 billion dollars in online revenue this year, and boy, just imagine when that market matures. This is in opposition to the producer's argument that internet programming is only a promotional material. Clearly it's a massive honeypot.

- H

[Gaereth]

-shrug- I guess I look at it like writing code. You are employed to write it, you get paid for the writing, and now its done and it is no longer yours.

Do the writers of songs get paid to write the song and ongoing stuff as well?? Do advertising writers get paid every time their commercial airs??

It doesn't really make sense to me. You have been paid for your work, now work more for more pay.

[mek]

Originally Posted by Gaereth

-shrug- I guess I look at it like writing code. You are employed to write it, you get paid for the writing, and now its done and it is no longer yours.

Do the writers of songs get paid to write the song and ongoing stuff as well?? Do advertising writers get paid every time their commercial airs??

It doesn't really make sense to me. You have been paid for your work, now work more for more pay.

You are failing to recognize the difference between technical writing and creative writing. The former can be done by anyone but the latter is unique and cannot be easily replaced, and so it's valued more and consequently those writers "get a cut". Code is code regardless of who wrote it, if it does what it's supposed to do that is irrelevant. But you can't say the same about Romeo and Juliet, if it was written by anyone other than Shakespeare it wouldn't be Romeo and Juliet. Similarly, try and convince J.K. Rowling that she shouldn't get a cut of book sales. (Now try and convince her she should get a cut of book sales, BUT NOT ebook sales, because those are "promotional.")

[Soriak]

Getting a cut based on sales/views is simply a different model of payment than giving them a higher base salary. You can have great financial advisers who can't just be replaced by anyone with the same degree (connections to clients are often more valuable to the employer than the actual job the person does) They still get paid a fixed salary.

No reason not to do the same for writers and just add bonuses for meeting various targets (DVD sales, views, whatever) instead of a direct cut.

[tad10]

Originally Posted by Zeste

I've been watching the Daily Show, and he's obviously still reading from a teleprompter, and not much of his stuff seems improvised.

What is he able to write or prepare ahead of time, and how can they still use a teleprompter?

He can't use a teleprompter. Jon Stewart is a former stand-up comedian (as are almost all the late night hosts) and is perfectly capable of coming up with gags on the spot or working shit out in his head and then repeating said shit w/o writing it down.

That said -- while the first day back was pretty good. The shows are suffering from the lack of writers (shows = TCR and TDS). A good example is the extensive use of clips on TCR (e.g. trying to get the Colbert picture into the smithsonian or whatever).

* * *

Soriak -- financial managers (investment bankers, hedge-fund managers, etc) usually get paid a percentage of the returns they generate. Which isn't that different from WGA demands to get a percentage of the returns they generate.

Wait a tick -- they're exactly the same!

[tad10]

Originally Posted by lendarios

You cant fire someone who is on strike.

Sure you can.

[Lenardo]

yes you Can fire someone on strike

didn't Reagan fire all the air traffic controllers in 1981--yes he did

the FAA made contingency plans, brought in trained workers to replace said fired workers and it worked very well.

[Occido]

I think it depends on the state you're in, the business you're involved in and the conditions of the strike. Which determines whether or not they can be fired or not for striking.

Here, yes.. they will can your ass for striking in a heart beat. Hell, if you dyed your hair from brunette to blonde and the boss doesn't like it... he's in his full right to fire you. So, I guess it all depends on a number of circumstances. Both above agruments are correct, in some cases the "striker" can't be fired, and in other situations they can.

In this case, to tell you the truth... I'm surprised the writers haven't been fired and replaced by now.

[Zeste]

Originally Posted by tad10

He can't use a teleprompter. Jon Stewart is a former stand-up comedian (as are almost all the late night hosts) and is perfectly capable of coming up with gags on the spot or working shit out in his head and then repeating said shit w/o writing it down.

That said -- while the first day back was pretty good. The shows are suffering from the lack of writers (shows = TCR and TDS). A good example is the extensive use of clips on TCR (e.g. trying to get the Colbert picture into the smithsonian or whatever).

* * *

Soriak -- financial managers (investment bankers, hedge-fund managers, etc) usually get paid a percentage of the returns they generate. Which isn't that different from WGA demands to get a percentage of the returns they generate.

Wait a tick -- they're exactly the same!

Can he write things to memorize? I know Leno has mad comments about how he's writing stuff all by himself.

[mek]

If they fired all the writers, they'd pretty much be cancelling every single tv show that's on hold right now. Unless you think TV like House or Heroes could be written by JUST ANYONE (ok maybe Heroes).

[lendarios]

Originally Posted by Lenardo

yes you Can fire someone on strike

didn't Reagan fire all the air traffic controllers in 1981--yes he did

the FAA made contingency plans, brought in trained workers to replace said fired workers and it worked very well.

Depends the area of work. If you are in the public health field, you dont have the right to strike, and you can be fired and replaced since the common good prevails over the individuals needs. The same for other key fields: firefighters, police. However television does not count as a key field were the common good prevails over the individuals salary needs.

[lendarios]

from 20. The Air Traffic Controllers' Strike

As federal employees the controllers were violating the no-strike clause of their employment contracts. In 1955 Congress had made such strikes a crime punishable by a fine or one year of incarceration

Very very different situation guys.

[Ham n Cheese]

Why would you say he can't use one Tad? Just because he's a stand up comedian doesn't mean he doesn't want his job to be easier. The show clearly suffered from his lack of writers imo.

[Gaereth]

Originally Posted by mek

You are failing to recognize the difference between technical writing and creative writing. The former can be done by anyone but the latter is unique and cannot be easily replaced, and so it's valued more and consequently those writers "get a cut". Code is code regardless of who wrote it, if it does what it's supposed to do that is irrelevant. But you can't say the same about Romeo and Juliet, if it was written by anyone other than Shakespeare it wouldn't be Romeo and Juliet. Similarly, try and convince J.K. Rowling that she shouldn't get a cut of book sales. (Now try and convince her she should get a cut of book sales, BUT NOT ebook sales, because those are "promotional.")

Well.....an individual writer should get paid for their work since they receive no pay otherwise. JK does not get paid for how many hours she spends typing, she gets paid for how many books she sells.

I look at the writers of the shows as part of a team that are building a product, not a product in and of themselves. How much of what these writers put onto paper would you spend money on??? Just the paper mind you. Would you download a weekly written script to get your fix of House??

They are a cog in the wheel of visual entertainment. If any other entertainment union was on strike we would have the same situation we have here, the shutdown of productions. If a book writer goes on strike...what...they get to see more of their spouse?? They use less electricity?? What??

Hell, I have no problems with people being paid ongoing rights type stuff, but the arrogance to demand it astounds me. You strike a deal with your employer and off to work you go....if your a great writer and structure a long term deal then good for you. Otherwise, put in the hours for your paycheck and call it good.

[Lowk]

Originally Posted by Gaereth

Well.....an individual writer should get paid for their work since they receive no pay otherwise. JK does not get paid for how many hours she spends typing, she gets paid for how many books she sells.

I look at the writers of the shows as part of a team that are building a product, not a product in and of themselves. How much of what these writers put onto paper would you spend money on??? Just the paper mind you. Would you download a weekly written script to get your fix of House??

They are a cog in the wheel of visual entertainment. If any other entertainment union was on strike we would have the same situation we have here, the shutdown of productions. If a book writer goes on strike...what...they get to see more of their spouse?? They use less electricity?? What??

Hell, I have no problems with people being paid ongoing rights type stuff, but the arrogance to demand it astounds me. You strike a deal with your employer and off to work you go....if your a great writer and structure a long term deal then good for you. Otherwise, put in the hours for your paycheck and call it good.

your argument is bad. let it go.