Peoples Musical High Horse.

[xmortal]

Before you read this realize it is mostly my opinion, just trying to get a grasp on where some people get there's from.

First lets look at the definition of music so we have a place to start:

Main Entry: mu·sic
Pronunciation: 'myü-zik
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: Middle English musik, from Old French musique, from Latin musica, from Greek mousikE any art presided over by the Muses, especially music, from feminine of mousikos of the Muses, from Mousa Muse
Date: 13th century
1 a : the science or art of ordering tones or sounds in succession, in combination, and in temporal relationships to produce a composition having unity and continuity b : vocal, instrumental, or mechanical sounds having rhythm, melody, or harmony
2 a : an agreeable sound : EUPHONY b : musical quality
3 : a musical accompaniment
4 : the score of a musical composition set down on paper
5 : a distinctive type or category of music

So from the definition I do not see anywhere that it states that someone who bashes garbage can lids together and beats on barrels with sticks (Stomp), or techno, or pop, or rap, is creating anything more or less definable as music than a concert orchestra, or rock band. Much less anyone who plays the guitar or other traditional instruments vs an artist that uses computers and synths and drum machines.

Now, as a matter of personal taste of course everyone is free and clear to not like something, just as much as they are free and clear to enjoy something, just remember it is a matter of taste and as we know taste is very varied.

So from what I see about peoples opinions on this board is there seems to be a lot of judgement based on perceived skill (please correct me if I am wrong)

A Pop star who doesn't write all or some of the music and lyrics for his songs isn't making REAL music because of that. The fact that they sang the songs is of no apparent relavence. Is it any different than the front man of a "band"? There are multiple people involved in creating the music that you hear, whether it is a band, or song writer, or producer etc..

So we have musical styles. Is this where the issue lies? I've seen comments about Rap, and how real rap is the deep underground rap. Well sure it is a style of rap, but think about it like this. Rap for the most part is a style of music that came from the streets and inner city ghettos. It is an art form in the way of the old story tellers. They rap about what they know. You get the BIG and Tupacs that rap about the streets and things they know. The have good flow, and rhyming styles and have worked many long hours to develop that. If you think that anyone can rhyme then that is pure ignorance.. Ask your average Joe Starbuck to write a rhyme, or hell even give him a printed version of a songs lyrics and then give him the beat and see if he can sound good. You know he wont and its ignorance if you think he would. Rapping about what you know, would only make sense to change as you get big does it not..? For how long can you rap about how hard life is in the ghetto after you've moved to the West Hills in a 10 room mansion and have a garage full of exotic cars? Doesn't make sense to talk about how hard your life is under those circumstances.. If these underground rappers you all define as "real" or "good" rappers ever get their shot their breaks how many albums before they start dropping in lines about 22's and how much money they have? I betcha its not long..Same with bands like Linkin Park, or Limp Bizkit they make music about being wronged by a woman, and hurt. Are those songs any worse then BB Kings the Thrill is gone? People make music about what they know and what drives them, and their passions that fuel their creativity.

Now, the band/vs machine issue.. If something is used in order to generate sound then we can classify it as a music making device... Now is a guitar a music making device?.. I would say yes. Is a drum machine a music making device?.. again I would say yes. Can anyone off of the street pick it up, and make music with either of them? Yes.. yes he can. If music is still defined as above, then anyone could make something... It might not be grammy winning but they could make something. Now could someone who has used one for years and made many songs pick up either of these music making devices and make music? Again by the above definition I will say yes. Could you tell the difference between them? Probably so, and why is that? Talent, experience, ... possessing those would make someone better at both music devices. Is there a difference between the 2 fundamentaly as musical making devices.. no. They are both used to make music. Thereby definition of someone using them to do so would be a musician. Just because you do not like, or appreciate somones music style does not mean that they are any more or less of a musician.

Somone who samples, uses a drum machine, or computers is simply utilizing different tools to accomplish a goal. The music.. Just like the guitar, and piano has evolved so has the methods for making music.

To me, a song is something that tells a story. I do not mean literally although they can as in the lyrics tell me a story, I mean the song itself. The song has a beginning, a middle(or build up) a climax (possibly multiple) and an ending. Whatever the means used to convey that story is just a matter of the artists choosing. Examples to me.. The Brothers Love Dubs - Mighty Ming. at 5:13 is the climax of the song (on my version since its been remade many times). The Cynic Project - Matrix song is another good example. Bethoven, Chopan, Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park, DMX etc.. Like anything, some of it can be good, some of it can suck, but its all music, and its all here. Appreciate it all. Dislike it if you don't find it pleasing to the ears. Love it and encourage others to experience it if you do find it pleasing to the ears. Just be open to everything at least once, and if it offends you, or truly truly you do not think well of it then by all means flame it to a crisp, but just remember in the end its all just a matter of taste which is a very fickle thing.

[Szlia]

Is there a difference between the 2 fundamentally as musical making devices.. no.

Actually there is one. One that is pretty significant too: the notion of performance.

One programs a drum machine, so one can adjust things over and over again. One has complete control on the final result. It's a pure production of the mind.

With a guitar, one needs coordination and feeling/soul/whatever to obtain the music. It's a performance, and in nature it's more volatile than a digital production of the mind.

I am not sure to be very clear, but I guess I told enough for you to feel the difference. Now of course you can perform on a drum machine or make a sample and then manipulate a guitar riff, but you got the general idea I am sure.

Both are still music without a doubt though. The creative process is just different.

[Gzette]

I think you're a little too sensitve Xmortal. When someone says something is not music, that doesn't mean it is not music. They're just saying its not good music. And as in all posts they're just opinions. So telling someone to get off their high horse is like telling them to not have an adverse opinion to what you think. Pretty stupid in my OPINION.

Well I agree in your definitions. Pop is music. Pop stars or more talented music wise then normal people and sub-normal people like computer dorks. That doesn't mean their shit don;t stink. They play for an audience and I have the right to think that it is utter crap...even though it is music and not feces.

As far as ranking them, I think everyone has more respect for the artist or band that carefully crafts the music all by themselves with only a little production done, than a Brittney Spears who does not write the music or lyrics, and just sings into some can that some technician fixes and then shakes her ass. The former is selling they're music while the latter is selling an image based loosely around a music career.

[Synd D`nys]

Stomp rules

[KrintixXaneris]

Basically all it comes down to is what is creative and whats not, and what is noise and what is not. After that its personal taste, but those are the only defining lines.