Midi Keyboards?

Soriak · 12-24-2006, 11:06 AM

I wanted to start taking piano lessons for a long time now, but I just don't have the room to have one at home so I could practice... today I came across some Midi keyboard (Master keyboard?) that would use PC software to synthesize the sound. Sounds pretty cool, especially since I could use headphones to not piss off the neighbors

Combined with software like this, it'd seem like a good way to get started.

I have absolutely no idea what I'd have to look for in such a keyboard though. Does it need 88 keys (standard for a piano, I think), or can I get started with less? The idea would be to use this to practice, if the keys don't cover the entire spectrum, I don't think that'd be a big issue (especially not at first) - but if some are missing, that'd be bad.

Basically I don't want to spend too much in case I end up not liking it after a few weeks

Quality I suppose depends mostly on the software used anyway, but even if not - I'd rather use it to get the finger movement trained than the hearing.

Any suggestions?

MVerlie · 12-24-2006, 02:50 PM

Sounds like a man that wants to play his favorite video game tracks.

Ephialtes · 12-24-2006, 04:22 PM

If you're looking to play fully two handed, you need at least a 49 key keyboard. If you want to play NI Akoustik Piano, you would need to get a midi controller. Several can be found at M-Audio or a host of em at online music shops such as Zzounds or Guitar Center. If you are just beginning and aren't too worried about recording, a standard 49 key controller will do well for you. If you lack a midi connector on your sound card you will want to look for one with a USB connection or you will need to get some form of midi interface. Most new keyboards come with that already, just make sure to check. This one is what I use, not any knobs or sliders but I have extra boxes for that. It's just a basic midi keyboard with USB, and it's cheap. You could even check Ebay and find some real cheap.

Akoustik Piano is a standalone proggie so it would work without any additional software.

There is some software that I have called Teach Me Piano that will take you through all of your beginning lessons. Haven't used it personally but it seems to do what you want. You could even get some basic piano books, those tend to be easy.

If you are looking to get into production... that's a whole nother ball of wax.

Check out KVR: Forum Index Tons of information and freeware including plugins, synths, and hosts.

Soriak · 12-25-2006, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MVerlie

Sounds like a man that wants to play his favorite video game tracks.

I have been found out

@Ephialtes
thanks for the write up, I just ordered the keyboard you use and the 'teach me piano' program - seems to be exactly what I was looking for.

Requiem · 12-25-2006, 10:46 AM

If you want something a bit more advanced that also has juicy electronic sounds, check out the Novation X-Station 61 key model. Hands down the most effective midi controller that I can think of, plus it's got one of the best modelled analog synthesis engines on the market, at a reasonable price. Can be powered via battery, usb, or the wall.

Nezarus · 12-25-2006, 02:20 PM

I've been considering the keyboard/software thing myself as well. I didn't think prices were too bad until I started looking into software like Akoustik Piano.

Should I expect to drop 300 bucks per instrument on software that supposedly recreates the sound to it's best authenticity, or is their a more generalized program that covers most instruments for a good package price that still sounds authentic?

I'll read the KVR forums that Ephialtes linked later today, maybe I will find more info there, but was still wondering if someone here had any other suggestions.

Soriak · 12-25-2006, 11:30 PM

Akoustik piano torrent search

You should find other major programs (even the 'teach me piano' software) on torrents too, which solves the problem of high software cost.

WarderX · 12-26-2006, 08:02 PM

99% of the songs you'll be playing in the beginning will only use about 2 octaves (12 keys in an octave). 88 keys is absolutely not necessary. 49 keys is probably the most practical buy.

There's no reason to spend a lot of money in the beginning if you're unsure if you'll like playing.

A cost efficient route would be picking up a M-Audio Keystation 49 ($79 a few years ago, not sure now) It's USB powered and pretty nice for the money. The keys don't feel that great compared to a real piano but it's fine for the price. Also, pick up a sustain pedal, such as a Boss DP2 ($15). It's only about $100 for a setup that will work well with probably any software out there.

Download fruity loops demo (called FL studio now) and download some piano soundfont off google (there are some REALLY nice sounding ones out there that are completely free) or just play the stock fruity loops piano plugin, it sounds crappy but is fine to learn on. You can't save in the FL demo but you can export.

Or just download the expensive ones.

Start with those and upgrade from there as you see fit.

Soriak · 12-31-2006, 02:48 AM

Got my keyboard on friday but haven't had a chance to play around with it until now... feels pretty good

A problem I have is that the midi sound plays with a really low volume. I made sure the windows settings have it on max volume, but I think it's an issue with the synthesizer of Windows - I only have the default one installed. (oddly enough the programs don't come with one of those)

Any suggestions on a good one?

edit: the Windows one identifies as "Microsoft GS Wavetable SW Synth"

Ephialtes · 12-31-2006, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soriak

Got my keyboard on friday but haven't had a chance to play around with it until now... feels pretty good

A problem I have is that the midi sound plays with a really low volume. I made sure the windows settings have it on max volume, but I think it's an issue with the synthesizer of Windows - I only have the default one installed. (oddly enough the programs don't come with one of those)

Any suggestions on a good one?

edit: the Windows one identifies as "Microsoft GS Wavetable SW Synth"

Thread talking about free, standalone synths to play around with:

KVR: Free standalone synths please

Whatever will be best for you depends on what type of sound you are looking for.

You could also try a "mini-host" to load up and play non-standalone VSTinstruments. Minihost would work, it's small, loads 1 synth at a time, and looks fairly straightforward. I personally use Ableton Live, but that may be a bit more advanced than what you are shooting for. Higher end DAWs can get pretty confusing for a first timer. But, you could always RTFM.

Then, work your way down this list and try out anything that catches your eye. Lots of them cost money, but there are tons of free synths on that list also.

If you aren't afraid of torrents, Reaktor by Native Instruments is standalone, has tons of sounds, and is extremely programmable. It's a pretty penny to buy, but if you are just a hobbiest, who cares.

::edit... Totally forgot to address your Windows synth trouble. If you have the volume maxed in your control panel, the only other thing to check is the volume slider on the keyboard itself. That may have moved a bit. If that's not it, I can't think of any other settings that may be wrong. Window's synth isn't the greatest though.

MVerlie · 02-15-2007, 09:55 AM

Well I've been very interested in purchasing an analog synth and was wondering if this would be a good purchase for a starting player:
Alesis Micron Analog Modeling Synth

xelnix · 02-15-2007, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MVerlie

Well I've been very interested in purchasing an analog synth and was wondering if this would be a good purchase for a starting player:
Alesis Micron Analog Modeling Synth

What is your reasoning for buying an analog? Do you produce music and just want to break into the hardware arena? Reason I ask is to get a better feel for what you want to be able to do so I can give you some suggestions.

I haven't heard anything bad about that particular synth, but depending on the sound you are looking for and your budget, there may be a more featured synth that would meet your needs. The fact that it's only 4 part multitimbral would cause me to hesitate, but again, more info is needed to see if it will in fact meet your needs. If you are using a DAW, the onboard sequencers would be pretty redundant as well. Also, the lack of knobs and/or sliders would cause me to hesitate as well, as I like to tweak heavily.

WarderX · 02-16-2007, 12:09 AM

The micron isn't bad for editing stuff, the 3 control knobs can be set to like 10 different functions each, you can push them in to switch whatever they are controlling, iirc. It's just a sort of annoying space saving feature.

At that price, $300-400 right?, it's main competitor is the Korg Microkorg (a toned down korg ms2000), and if you do a search, you will find HUNDREDS of arguments over which is better. Everyone has an opinion. I personally think the alesis sounds better for the majority of the similar sounds the two make, but the microkorg is a lot more friendly to tweaking and makes several cooler sounds.

That said, both are dumb to use as pure midi controllers, and are probably best used as "on the road" synths. I would hate to record a whole album with either of them as the main synth or whatever, it would be better to use a shitty midi controller and some software. (playing anything intently on a midget keyboard sucks IMO)

12-24-2006, 11:06 AM	#1 (permalink)
Soriak Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Switzerland Posts: 4,403 +18 Internets	Midi Keyboards? I wanted to start taking piano lessons for a long time now, but I just don't have the room to have one at home so I could practice... today I came across some Midi keyboard (Master keyboard?) that would use PC software to synthesize the sound. Sounds pretty cool, especially since I could use headphones to not piss off the neighbors Combined with software like this, it'd seem like a good way to get started. I have absolutely no idea what I'd have to look for in such a keyboard though. Does it need 88 keys (standard for a piano, I think), or can I get started with less? The idea would be to use this to practice, if the keys don't cover the entire spectrum, I don't think that'd be a big issue (especially not at first) - but if some are missing, that'd be bad. Basically I don't want to spend too much in case I end up not liking it after a few weeks Quality I suppose depends mostly on the software used anyway, but even if not - I'd rather use it to get the finger movement trained than the hearing. Any suggestions?

12-25-2006, 10:46 AM	#5 (permalink)
Requiem Site Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Cambridge, MA Posts: 865 +36 Internets	If you want something a bit more advanced that also has juicy electronic sounds, check out the Novation X-Station 61 key model. Hands down the most effective midi controller that I can think of, plus it's got one of the best modelled analog synthesis engines on the market, at a reasonable price. Can be powered via battery, usb, or the wall. __________________ Requiem Alloria Mistweave Uberguilds.org, fohguild.org Site Administrator requiem@fohguild.org

12-31-2006, 02:48 AM	#9 (permalink)
Soriak Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Switzerland Posts: 4,403 +18 Internets	Got my keyboard on friday but haven't had a chance to play around with it until now... feels pretty good A problem I have is that the midi sound plays with a really low volume. I made sure the windows settings have it on max volume, but I think it's an issue with the synthesizer of Windows - I only have the default one installed. (oddly enough the programs don't come with one of those) Any suggestions on a good one? edit: the Windows one identifies as "Microsoft GS Wavetable SW Synth" Last edited by Soriak : 12-31-2006 at 02:52 AM.

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12-24-2006, 02:50 PM	#2 (permalink)
MVerlie Banned Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 309 +0 Internets	Sounds like a man that wants to play his favorite video game tracks.

12-24-2006, 04:22 PM	#3 (permalink)
Ephialtes Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 35 +0 Internets	If you're looking to play fully two handed, you need at least a 49 key keyboard. If you want to play NI Akoustik Piano, you would need to get a midi controller. Several can be found at M-Audio or a host of em at online music shops such as Zzounds or Guitar Center. If you are just beginning and aren't too worried about recording, a standard 49 key controller will do well for you. If you lack a midi connector on your sound card you will want to look for one with a USB connection or you will need to get some form of midi interface. Most new keyboards come with that already, just make sure to check. This one is what I use, not any knobs or sliders but I have extra boxes for that. It's just a basic midi keyboard with USB, and it's cheap. You could even check Ebay and find some real cheap. Akoustik Piano is a standalone proggie so it would work without any additional software. There is some software that I have called Teach Me Piano that will take you through all of your beginning lessons. Haven't used it personally but it seems to do what you want. You could even get some basic piano books, those tend to be easy. If you are looking to get into production... that's a whole nother ball of wax. Check out KVR: Forum Index Tons of information and freeware including plugins, synths, and hosts.

12-25-2006, 02:20 PM	#6 (permalink)
Nezarus Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 20 +0 Internets	I've been considering the keyboard/software thing myself as well. I didn't think prices were too bad until I started looking into software like Akoustik Piano. Should I expect to drop 300 bucks per instrument on software that supposedly recreates the sound to it's best authenticity, or is their a more generalized program that covers most instruments for a good package price that still sounds authentic? I'll read the KVR forums that Ephialtes linked later today, maybe I will find more info there, but was still wondering if someone here had any other suggestions.

12-25-2006, 11:30 PM	#7 (permalink)
Soriak Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Switzerland Posts: 4,403 +18 Internets	Akoustik piano torrent search You should find other major programs (even the 'teach me piano' software) on torrents too, which solves the problem of high software cost.

12-26-2006, 08:02 PM	#8 (permalink)
WarderX Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1,593 +1 Internets	99% of the songs you'll be playing in the beginning will only use about 2 octaves (12 keys in an octave). 88 keys is absolutely not necessary. 49 keys is probably the most practical buy. There's no reason to spend a lot of money in the beginning if you're unsure if you'll like playing. A cost efficient route would be picking up a M-Audio Keystation 49 ($79 a few years ago, not sure now) It's USB powered and pretty nice for the money. The keys don't feel that great compared to a real piano but it's fine for the price. Also, pick up a sustain pedal, such as a Boss DP2 ($15). It's only about $100 for a setup that will work well with probably any software out there. Download fruity loops demo (called FL studio now) and download some piano soundfont off google (there are some REALLY nice sounding ones out there that are completely free) or just play the stock fruity loops piano plugin, it sounds crappy but is fine to learn on. You can't save in the FL demo but you can export. Or just download the expensive ones. Start with those and upgrade from there as you see fit.

02-15-2007, 09:55 AM	#11 (permalink)
MVerlie Banned Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 309 +0 Internets	Well I've been very interested in purchasing an analog synth and was wondering if this would be a good purchase for a starting player: Alesis Micron Analog Modeling Synth

02-16-2007, 12:09 AM	#13 (permalink)
WarderX Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1,593 +1 Internets	The micron isn't bad for editing stuff, the 3 control knobs can be set to like 10 different functions each, you can push them in to switch whatever they are controlling, iirc. It's just a sort of annoying space saving feature. At that price, $300-400 right?, it's main competitor is the Korg Microkorg (a toned down korg ms2000), and if you do a search, you will find HUNDREDS of arguments over which is better. Everyone has an opinion. I personally think the alesis sounds better for the majority of the similar sounds the two make, but the microkorg is a lot more friendly to tweaking and makes several cooler sounds. That said, both are dumb to use as pure midi controllers, and are probably best used as "on the road" synths. I would hate to record a whole album with either of them as the main synth or whatever, it would be better to use a shitty midi controller and some software. (playing anything intently on a midget keyboard sucks IMO)