TTT - great movie

[Zurren]

Just got in from the midnight showing of the two towers. All around, I gotta say it was a top-notch movie, and for the most part, you can tell that all movies were done at the same time as it kept the same level of quality/intregeity that most sequals lack.

They do a great job at showing the differing story-lines and sub-plots without making things confusing, and the battle scenes are very well done .. the tension building upto the battle at helms deep, then the breaking point had me with my jaw to the floor pretty much.

Yeah, its not exactly word for word from the book. As much as I loved the books, there is alot of stuff in them that would of bored me in a theater, even though they kept me entertained while curled up in bed reading it. About my only nitpick with the movie is that Gilimi is used as comic relife a little too often, there was the odd moment where the tension/seriousness of the scene would of been nice if it had been maintained, but they toss in a 1-liner which sorta breaks it.

I suppose if your a total tolkenite-nerd, the same type who picked apart every last aspect of the 1st one, you probably will be ticked .. but for the avg fan who enjoyed the books, or even the big fan who can appricate what was attempting to be done, to those who havnt read them at all .. will most likely enjoy the movie.

The group of people I saw the movie with ranged from someone who hasnt even picked up the books before, to a total die-hard fan, and everyone loved it.

[ArkturusMaximus]

That scene that Gimli breaks the tension...i thought it was perfect timing....and had me in tears laughing.

[Zurren]

actually got into a debate about that with a friend .. he thought that the tension had almost been too much and agree's that it was the right spot.

Personnaly, I think it coulda gone without, but damn .. all in all I loved it. Just wish'd they had like, dragged it out into the spider queen's lair a bit But only because I sooooooo wanted to see how they would of done it in the movie, guess I'll wait till Dec 18th 2003 to find out.

/drool

cant wait for the trailers.

[MylSilmarian]

I liked this movie, just got back from the midnight showing as well. A little more humor in this one helped break not only the tension but the long parts of the serious storyline.

[Synd D`nys]

They did sort of use Gimli a bit too much as comic relief but it really was genuinly funny.

For the real beef... What the FUCK was Jackson thinking when he wrote the character of Faramir. He absolutely destroyed it. Yeah there was some things left out of The Fellowship and some minor additions but this was a MAJOR alteration to a character and the plot where there was absolutely no reason to do so.

I wasn't bothered by the Arwen/Elrond/Galadriel interlude. I wasn't upset at the over use of comic relief with Gimli. I even accepted elves coming to fight at Helm's Deep where they shouldn't have been anywhere near.

Faramir's entire reason for being in The Two Towers is to resist the temptation of the Ring and thus succed where his brother, Boromir, failed. By making him slink off to Gondor with Frodo and the Ring to try and use against Sauron went against the very existance of the character.

It absolutely amazes me how much attention to detail that PJ put into the script in most parts only to willfully and for no reason make such a major change.

[Jinheim]

haha I noticed the overuse of comic relief via gimli, as well. Already a thread on my guild's boards, so I'll just copy what I wrote, there:

I have a lot to say about the movie, but I will have to hold my tongue until everyone has seen it (hopefully you are all normal people and will be seeing it today). There are, however, a few things I can say without spoiling anything:

1) I hope you like "gimli is short" jokes, because there is a lot of them - far too many. Gimli's main function in TTT is to serve as comic relief. Even in his moment of triumph and heroism, he goes in to it in a comic manner, which kind of ruins it (you'll know his moment when you hear the word "toss"). Also, some of the comic relief is used at bad times. When the defenders at Helm's Deep are lined up, ready to fight and die, that is supposed to be intense and dramatic, and it was. I was getting chills. Then, they ruined it with a gimli short joke. Bad timing and usage, imho.

2) Extreme sports have invaded our movies. It started with XXX and Vin Diesel. Since then, just about every movie with any action genre roots has incorporated some manner of extreme sports in to it, somewhere. In Die Another Day, bond and his lackeys started the movie by surfing in. I'm sure swimming would have worked just fine, but they had to surf, just for the sake of doing it. Then, later in the movie, he surfed/handglided his way out of the frozen lake. I didn't enjoy either of these parts, just because of their cornyness. I thought that TTT would be safe from extreme sports perversion, but no WHY? WHY did lelgolas have to ride a shield down that flight of stairs like it was a skateboard? I just don't understand. This was a terrible shot and it just pissed me off.

3) The books were not written as a story occuring in a fantasy world, but vice versa. Tolkein created this huge, intricate world, and then told a story that occured in it. The story itself is amazing, but the true wonder of the LOTR series is the imaginary world that he created. It was so vivid and real, that it was easy to get lost in it. The first movie introduced us to this world, and lead us on a journey through it. It took time to explain things about the world and its lore. TTT does not do this. The world is used more as a backdrop for the epic battles and conflicts that are taking place within it. This is not necessarily a bad thing, as it does make for a much more intense movie, but I feel it is a valid observation.

I know it sounds like I have nothing but bad things to say, but such is not the case. There are many many good things about this movie, but I can't share them just yet, as that would ruin it for those of you who havent seen it Like the first one, TTT is an amazing movie. It gave me chills and really drew me in at its intense moments, and brought a genuine smile to my face during the lighter parts.

There is absolutely no reason to not see this movie. It is still incredible, despite a few minor flaws.

[Nanaki Ikanan]

Gimli being used as Comic relief was good in my opinion. A movie NEEDS some comic relief, and they did a good job of it. They didn't turn Gimli into an annoying character like Jar Jar Binks or anything, but were still able to use him for a few jokes. Which is fine, because they weren't really lame jokes. They were funny.

As for Faramir resisting the ring...he still did in the end. But yeah, to me, Faramir seemed a bit more...evil than he did in the books.


All in all, it was an excellent movie. A LOT of things changed, but that didn't detract much from the movie.



Taking out the Scouring of the Shire in RoTK though................agh, I almost killed myself when I heard that =(

[MorinkhanMT]

Doh, I'm going to see it in a couple hrs, but hearing about how they treat Faramir in the movie is disheartening.

Faramir is a direct contrast to his brother Boromir. They're both great, heroic men, but Boromir is over-proud and the favorite son, while Faramir is the modest and noble "second-best".

I always enjoyed how the "mighty" Boromir succumbed to the temptation of the Ring, while his "lesser" brother succeeded.

/sigh Faramir is one of my favorite characters too.

[Eager Val'Sharess]

I believe the Faramir comments to be unjust. (I just got home from seeing the movie) I understand the consternation about it, but I also realize that my own annoyance with it was due to knowing how the whole story plays out. Who everyone really is, etc. When I looked at it from the point of a person who's never read and loved the books, I realized that it was showing another person who should totally be in charge... as another person who the ring could conceivably control. In the end he still did the right thing, and that's what counts. Keep in mind while watching this film that it's not *just* for the book readers, but new fans as well.

Also we come to the point of Gimli. Gimli is the one used primarily for comic relief. I remember actually thinking in the theatre, "thank god he's pulling it off and not being another jar-jar". Actual thought during the film. (when he fell off the horse and tried to pass it off rofl)

All in all I thought it was a tremendous film, there are flaws true, but there are flaws in everything .. .. so live with it.

The things I most vividly remember are looking around the audience during the battle at helms deep, and the battle with the riders. I remember mouths open in awe, I remember older people's faces lit up with a delight you rarely see in anybody anymore. What I remember is that this is a spectacular movie, and brought a lot of people together for some laughing, some crying and some outright ogling in awe. (thx ent scene)

A worthy second film in the trilogy.

(I also tweaked when I found out no scowering of the shire, but I'll live . I guess (sob))

[Nanaki Ikanan]

I have talked to a lot of different people about the Scouring of the shire, and some think it wasn't very important to the story, while others think that it had EVERYTHING to do with the story.

I think that the Scouring was VERY important to the story, but apparently, Peter Jackson doesn't =/ Shame, real shame.

But then again, when I first read the books, the scouring came as a real surprise to me when I found out who Sharky was. Maybe Jackson IS going to have the scouring in, and he just wants it to surprise people when we have all heard that he wont have it ^_^


You would think Christopher Lee would be pissed off about not having the scouring in. I mean, he IS Saruman after all. And he has read the books like, 60 times at least (He knows them better than Jackson!) You'd think Lee would be fighting to have the scouring left in...but who knows. We'll see ^_^

[Eager Val'Sharess]

Hey speaking of Christopher Lee... when he was in his tower overlooking the Ent's attack, wasn't that incredible? I remember thinking that it was the pinacle of his career doing that scene, and how happy he must be with it.

[Axterix]

Originally posted by Synd D`nys
I wasn't bothered by the Arwen/Elrond/Galadriel interlude

To me, this was the worst part of the movie. All of Aragorn's little mental flashback stuff. Just didn't flow well, didn't add anything to the movie. Wasted time that could have been spent on other things. Even little things like the final score in the orc hewing contest Gimli and Legolas had going. Instead, we'll have to wait for the 4 disc set to see that, no doubt.

The Faramir change doesn't really bother me that much, though I'd rather have seen it truer to the book.

Anyway, it was a good movie, not as good as the first due to the flashback/dream stuff hurting the flow.

Absolutely loved Gollum. By far the best character in the movie.

[Vice]

Originally posted by Eager Val'Sharess
Hey speaking of Christopher Lee... when he was in his tower overlooking the Ent's attack, wasn't that incredible? I remember thinking that it was the pinacle of his career doing that scene, and how happy he must be with it.

I dunno, he fought Yoda with a lightsabre, hard to beat that :P

[Zignor]

Well I've seen it twice now. I'll be honest. The first screening didn't completely sell me. Perhaps it was the fact that I had been anticipating this movie for over a year now, and the initial pummeling I received on the first viewing left me a little dazed.

The second round was incredible. The Two Towers easily stands with Fellowship, if not a bit above. If you had reservations, see it again.

[BalzWeiss]

I saw the midnight showing as well and I consider myself a bit more than a casual fan but not hardcore. Anyways, I came away entertained but vexed. Before I rant a bit I should warn you my favorite character in the entire trilogy was Treebeard and in a close third was Gimli. I have also not read any spoilers for ROTK.

Peevs

I didn't really like the beginning. It totally lacked any sort of structure. Basically the scenes changed eveny 3 minutes until Theoden came in.

Eomer's character was destoryed. Choosing to exile him and eliminate him from the movie was a poor choice.

Faramir's character was skewed beyond validation. The whole point was he was different from his brother. Yeah he does the right thing in the end, but if you remeber so did Boromir.

Gimli. I think this ticked me off more than anything else. If Gimli's character was done correctly I think I would have liked this movie much better. From the beginning scene I was displeased. Dwarves are known for having remarkable stamina, and he shouldn't have been lagging behind his companions in the fields of Rohan. Second, being a dwarf Gimli is old and quite wise. Gimli just comes off as being very stupid and shallow. His love for the mountains and disdain for the forest is lost in his cheap antics. The only time in the movie when I enjoyed watching Gimli was when he was explaining dwarven women. But that had to be ruined as we saw him fall off a horse AGAIN. wtf. Lastly, I think they could have showed his prowess in battle a little better. C'mon, if I hadn't read the books I would be thinking, "How did evolution not destory the dwarves thousands of years ago?".

Legolas is essentially a gadget character. Because Gimli is brought to the level of a bumbling idiot, Legolas' character doesn't have a chance to develop (if you remeber much of Legolas' character is brought out through conversation with Gimli, but this relationship is not touched on at all). Yeah he's an elf and does cool shit but if some random ass elf did the same stunts and Legolas got the axe the movie would be uneffected.

There weren't enough Ents. Sadly, they weren't hasty enough to get a big part . Treebeard was a bit hasty when he met Merry and Pip at first, I was hoping he would recite his "old lists" like he did in the book and come to the decision that the hobbits were harmless by himself (without consulting Gandalf). Also, they made it seem like Entmoot was a couple hours, not 3 days. Lastly, I was annoyed that Treebeard came to his decision by seeing the dead trees. THAT WAS A HASTY DECISION. The whole POINT of Entmoot was that the Ents made an ent-like (slow) decision. Treebeard had so few lines, in fact, that when I was talking to my friend about him he looked at me funny and asked "Who was Treebeard?".

Every scene where Merry and Pip were on top of Treebeard and Treebeard was walking. The special FX were terrible. I'm sure you remeber what I'm talking about.

Everything with Arwen. Get her outta there and axe the part where Aragorn falls. Jackson could have put that time to much better use.

Would have liked more Eowyn, but I can live without her.

Give some love to the Nazgul. These guys scour the world -- the world mind you -- for this one guy. One finally finds him, but he gets scared away buy an arrow or two.

Total lack of any foreign language besides Elvish. I was looking forward to some ancient battle crys (especially the dwarven ones) and maybe a song or two. I also would have liked to see Anduril burst into white flames when Aragorn was fighting.

Gotta wait another year for Shelob .

All in all, I think the drastic changes to character, plot, and to a degree flavor, were detrimental to the movie.


Pros

Gollum was done very well. I liked how P Jack showed Gollum's two sides and his voice was just as how I pictured it.

The few scenes that contained Gandalf were great. I loved the transformation from grey to white. I also like the Balrog battle in the beginning. I wish they had mentioned that the eagle king came and got him because those that didn't read the book were somewhat confused (in the movie Gandalf simply remarks that it wasn't his time). Shadowfax could have gotten some more love too.

Theoden and his transformation was done well too. I'm looking forward to seeing him rise up and ride into battle in the last film.

Everything containing Ents AFTER the botched Entmoot was quite nice. I wished Treebeard said "hoom" more though .

Sam was clutch. Right on the money. Frodo as well.

The scenery was amazing. It's hard picking out a favorite, but nothing topped Rivendell from the first movie (which was actually a miniature). Actually now that I think about it the flooding of Isengard was pretty damn sweet. Dead marshes was done well, I like Fangorn, the rolling hills of Rohan, the corrupted Isengard... yeah it was all good.

The battles were done well. Whatever money was saved on the hobbits-riding-Treebeeard scenes was put to good use here. The battles were simply phenominal. The only questionable part was when those 6 or so horses rode out from the keep after Helm's Deep had been partially taken over by the orcs and literally made it unscathed through the sea of enemies. The would have obviously been cut down rather quickly. Warg riders were fun too.

Oliphants, so good.


In the end, I think it was a good movie. If you remeber the books at all I think it would be hard to not come away a little annoyed. The changes in character and chain of events hurt the flavor of the whole story. Tolkien's lingustical skills were what made Lord of the Rings so good, but much of it is lost in the movie. I would have been happier if the battle time was cut in half and the remaining time was devoted to character dialogue and description, but I understand that isn't fiscally feasible. Idealy I would have liked six three-hour films (or just three six-hour films) but I understand this would also have been fiscally impossible. On the plus side, if you havn't read the books you will LOVE this film. I am basing this on the fact that my ten or so non-book friends that came to the midnight showing with me (why, I don't know) ALL said (at 4 o'clock in the morning mind you) that the trip was well worth it and the movie was simply stunning. My book friends and I agreed that it would be hard to come away from this movie not entertained no matter how many times one had read LOTR, but be warned that P Jack will make a number of questionable calls.

Edit: A few grammar issues, although I'm sure there are many more.