TTT - great movie - Page 6

The Insider · 12-28-2002, 08:02 AM

Silmarillion,Unfinished Tales,Letters from Tolkien,etc

Camu · 12-30-2002, 08:39 AM

'The Insider''s posted basically what i wanted to say hehe...

basically you need to understand that Gandalf was sent in a mortal skin, he almost NEVER uses his own magic, only a few times using mere illusions, and like he says at some time 'mostly using the speed of shadowfax'.

what you seen during the balrog fight is the use of Narya the ring of fire through Glamdring his magical blade. he uses those magic items, but not real magic.

And yes Sauron and Gandalf are as old, they were born as all the Maiar before the creation of Eä (the world of Tolkien), and they came down to the world when it was created finally.

Murr · 12-31-2002, 05:27 AM

I hope the Witch-king (Lord of the Ringwraiths) is done well in ROTK. He's supposed to take off his hood and all you see is a crown and two red eyes. And then Merry gets to hamstring him! teehee!
We should see plenty of Eowyn in ROTK.
Zanoan I will kill you! Gollum is the best!
What are taters, preciousss?

Thorpe · 12-31-2002, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zanoan

Also, I wouldn't mind a bit less of Gollum. Don't get me wrong. I loved Gollum in TTT. I loved the scenes with his splitted personality, especially when Frodo and Sam were asleep and they already were allied. Just a little less of him.

More Eowyn. Great actor. I for some reason just think she has a too little part in this movie.

First off, Gollum is as big as any other character in the second book. If anything, there should have been more Gollum before there was less. Secondly, if I remember correctly, Eowyn shoudln't have been in the movie at all being she isn't mentioned in the book. Jackson choose to put her in, and in my opnion should be in the movie less than she is (for example Aragon never fell over a cliff in the book).

MorinkhanMT · 12-31-2002, 10:41 AM

Eowyn was in the Two Towers book, but she contributed little. She was introduced, depicted as a sad and aloof woman who wanted glory in battle. She falls for Aragorn.

She has a few dialogues with Aragorn in TTT. That's about it.

Of course, she plays a larger role in RotK, but she's a peripheral character in TTT.

Brutul Tarew Marr · 01-02-2003, 04:46 PM

I hated the whole thing with Aaragorn falling off the cliff. Hopefully that will be one chapter on the DVD and I can just skip over it. If you ask me it was nothing more than a half-assed attempt to get Liv Tyler some more screen time. Personally I think if they had completely removed Arwen from the movies it would have been an improvement. Every scene she's in (except for the part where she takes Frodo to Rivendell, which wasn't in the book either) seems tacked-on. I think if she wasn't the biggest star in the cast a lot of that crap wouldn't have made it to the final movie at all.

I thought Eowyn was great, she looked just like I would have imagined her and I can't wait to see her in armor and holding a sword in the next movie.

I didn't like what they did with Eomer, but I didn't think it was horrible. Also thought that the Theoden being possessed by Saruman was kinda cheesy, but his transformation was pretty cool.

Would have liked to see more of the Hurons killing orcs but the part with the ents destroying Isengard was great.

I loved the part where Aaragorn and Gimli go out and defend the gate, but Eomer should have been with them.

I hated the Faramir thing. He was so cool in the book and I didn't see any reason for the change in him. I did like the actor that played him though.

Didn't think much of Frodo attacking Sam, but I guess I can see why they put it in.

There were a whole host of little things that I would have done differently if it was my movie, but really the only things that really bothered me were the Faramir thing and the stupid tacked-on Aaragorn dream sequence.

aychamo_aycono · 01-02-2003, 04:53 PM

The part where Eowyn is asking Aaragon about Arwyn, is a great time to get up and go take that pee you've been holding for the 1st half of the movie.

Tristinn · 01-02-2003, 05:36 PM

No.. Its not.

Every scene in that movie is beautifully well done. The Music during "The part where Eowyn is asking Aaragon about Arwyn," is reason alone to sit there and Pay attention to what is happening.

The Aragorn falling off the cliff part was also done well. Instead of Sitting there and thinking, OMG HE ISNT DEAD WTF, I put myself into the place of Gimli Legolas Eowyn etc and tryed to feel what they felt.

Synd D`nys · 01-02-2003, 11:41 PM

It may have been well filmed but when you are on your 5th viewing, it is in fact the perfect place to hit the head if you need to go.

off_world · 01-03-2003, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Synd D`nys
It may have been well filmed but when you are on your 5th viewing, it is in fact the perfect place to hit the head if you need to go.

Agree. When I was watching for the third time, slept through that whole sequence, woke up and Helm's Deep was just about to get it on!

Valdarie · 01-03-2003, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thorpe

First off, Gollum is as big as any other character in the second book. If anything, there should have been more Gollum before there was less. Secondly, if I remember correctly, Eowyn shoudln't have been in the movie at all being she isn't mentioned in the book. Jackson choose to put her in, and in my opnion should be in the movie less than she is (for example Aragon never fell over a cliff in the book).

You mean, Arwen? Arwen, not Eowyn, came to Aragorn as in a dream during that whole cliff sequence, trying to awaken him... which was definitely not in the book. There is a lot of new story lines about Arwen that were fabricated to give her more screentime. PJ says he got most of his ideas from Tolkein's notes, etc about another elf/human pair in which the elf gives up her immortality to be with the human.

I can't really complain about things that were left out, put in or otherwised changed from the original Tolkien book. This is true especially after watching the indices from FoTR in which you see the extent to which PJ and his team have gone to portray LoTR in the best possible light. Most are avid Tolkien fans who read the books once a year and attended to every possible detail. No movie is identical to the book, but I think that thus far these folks have done an outstanding job in conveying Middle Earth as Tolkien wanted it to be represented!

MorinkhanMT · 01-03-2003, 12:45 PM

I've been thinking about some of the plot changes and additions PJ is using in TTT and have come up with a theory to explain most of them. =)

In many interviews, PJ has stated his favorite scene/idea from the novel is the very last chapter, with all the main characters boarding ship and saling West from the Grey Havens.

This ending in the book is very powerful, but only if you understand the significance of Valinor (the land of the Gods in the West) and the scope of what the elves leaving ME entails. When understood, it's a very poignant and powerful ending.

So, my theory is that PJ looked over the entire script and tried to reconcile it with the ending of RotK he envisions. He felt he needed a method to inform the audiences of the significance of elves and the West thourghout all three movies.

Thus, Arwen's part is beefed up considerably, to emphasize the Mortal vs Immortal concept, chiefly displayed by the Aragorn/Arwen interracial love story.

I don't think he threw Aragorn's "death" in purely as a dramatic moment. I believe he used it as an engine to set up the "Elves leaving" plotline. He needed a place for these scenes, so he fabricated a near-death dream sequence for Aragorn to allow him to include it. It's a little on the cheesy side, but it works, especially if you don't know the books.

This also explains why Elves showed up to fight in the battle for Helm's Deep, and why Haldir had his big slo-mo death sequence. As an undeveloped character, he definitely didn't deserve the attention his death received... but his death and the scenes of all the other elven dead around him could serve to further emphasize the elves' stake in this war... the risk of losing their immortality.

I'm withholding any final judgements on the movie until I've seen all three. Watching movie 1 and 2, it seems to me that most of his changes were added as attempts to clarify broader concepts of the book he wants to impart on his audience. I think some of the reasoning behind his changes will become obivous after part 3 is released.

Any thoughts? =)

Zignor · 01-03-2003, 01:02 PM

Exactly.

Arwen isn't there simply for the benefit of Aragorn. She also represents to the film a concept that Tolkien wove through all of his tales of Middle Earth. The immortality of the Elves is very important, and understanding the significance of Valinor (The Undying Lands) and the Grey Havens will be crucial for the final scenes of RoTK to have the impact that they should. Jackson and crew couldn't of explained this in the way that the books did. It would take too long, and *still* demand deviations from the text in order to fit into the films. In that respect Arwen serves a dual purpose to the story.

Purists whining about her (and the Helm's Deep Elves) presence need to realize that a huge theme of Tolkien's would of been lost in the translation if not for their inclusion, or if not them, some other equally different-from-the-books plot device.

01-02-2003, 04:53 PM	#82 (permalink)
aychamo_aycono King Poster Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3,380	The part where Eowyn is asking Aaragon about Arwyn, is a great time to get up and go take that pee you've been holding for the 1st half of the movie. __________________ I run a small forum for discussion of medical topics.

01-02-2003, 05:36 PM	#83 (permalink)
Tristinn In Tyler we Trust Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: n. korea Posts: 435 -11 Internets	No.. Its not. Every scene in that movie is beautifully well done. The Music during "The part where Eowyn is asking Aaragon about Arwyn," is reason alone to sit there and Pay attention to what is happening. The Aragorn falling off the cliff part was also done well. Instead of Sitting there and thinking, OMG HE ISNT DEAD WTF, I put myself into the place of Gimli Legolas Eowyn etc and tryed to feel what they felt. __________________ Fuck You, I'm Eating.

01-02-2003, 11:41 PM	#84 (permalink)
Synd D`nys The root of all evil Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hockeytown, U.S.A. Posts: 548 +0 Internets	It may have been well filmed but when you are on your 5th viewing, it is in fact the perfect place to hit the head if you need to go. __________________ EverQuest free since 7/03

01-03-2003, 12:45 PM	#87 (permalink)
MorinkhanMT Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 241 -1 Internets	My TTT theory I've been thinking about some of the plot changes and additions PJ is using in TTT and have come up with a theory to explain most of them. =) In many interviews, PJ has stated his favorite scene/idea from the novel is the very last chapter, with all the main characters boarding ship and saling West from the Grey Havens. This ending in the book is very powerful, but only if you understand the significance of Valinor (the land of the Gods in the West) and the scope of what the elves leaving ME entails. When understood, it's a very poignant and powerful ending. So, my theory is that PJ looked over the entire script and tried to reconcile it with the ending of RotK he envisions. He felt he needed a method to inform the audiences of the significance of elves and the West thourghout all three movies. Thus, Arwen's part is beefed up considerably, to emphasize the Mortal vs Immortal concept, chiefly displayed by the Aragorn/Arwen interracial love story. I don't think he threw Aragorn's "death" in purely as a dramatic moment. I believe he used it as an engine to set up the "Elves leaving" plotline. He needed a place for these scenes, so he fabricated a near-death dream sequence for Aragorn to allow him to include it. It's a little on the cheesy side, but it works, especially if you don't know the books. This also explains why Elves showed up to fight in the battle for Helm's Deep, and why Haldir had his big slo-mo death sequence. As an undeveloped character, he definitely didn't deserve the attention his death received... but his death and the scenes of all the other elven dead around him could serve to further emphasize the elves' stake in this war... the risk of losing their immortality. I'm withholding any final judgements on the movie until I've seen all three. Watching movie 1 and 2, it seems to me that most of his changes were added as attempts to clarify broader concepts of the book he wants to impart on his audience. I think some of the reasoning behind his changes will become obivous after part 3 is released. Any thoughts? =)

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12-28-2002, 08:02 AM	#76 (permalink)
The Insider 30+ D: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: inside Posts: 280 -1 Internets	Silmarillion,Unfinished Tales,Letters from Tolkien,etc

12-30-2002, 08:39 AM	#77 (permalink)
Camu Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: France Posts: 108 -1 Internets	'The Insider''s posted basically what i wanted to say hehe... basically you need to understand that Gandalf was sent in a mortal skin, he almost NEVER uses his own magic, only a few times using mere illusions, and like he says at some time 'mostly using the speed of shadowfax'. what you seen during the balrog fight is the use of Narya the ring of fire through Glamdring his magical blade. he uses those magic items, but not real magic. And yes Sauron and Gandalf are as old, they were born as all the Maiar before the creation of Eä (the world of Tolkien), and they came down to the world when it was created finally.

12-31-2002, 05:27 AM	#78 (permalink)
Murr Token Gnome Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Chapel Hill, NC Posts: 1,818 +11 Internets	I hope the Witch-king (Lord of the Ringwraiths) is done well in ROTK. He's supposed to take off his hood and all you see is a crown and two red eyes. And then Merry gets to hamstring him! teehee! We should see plenty of Eowyn in ROTK. Zanoan I will kill you! Gollum is the best! What are taters, preciousss?

12-31-2002, 10:41 AM	#80 (permalink)
MorinkhanMT Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 241 -1 Internets	Eowyn was in the Two Towers book, but she contributed little. She was introduced, depicted as a sad and aloof woman who wanted glory in battle. She falls for Aragorn. She has a few dialogues with Aragorn in TTT. That's about it. Of course, she plays a larger role in RotK, but she's a peripheral character in TTT.

01-02-2003, 04:46 PM	#81 (permalink)
Brutul Tarew Marr Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun. Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 1,041 +2 Internets	I hated the whole thing with Aaragorn falling off the cliff. Hopefully that will be one chapter on the DVD and I can just skip over it. If you ask me it was nothing more than a half-assed attempt to get Liv Tyler some more screen time. Personally I think if they had completely removed Arwen from the movies it would have been an improvement. Every scene she's in (except for the part where she takes Frodo to Rivendell, which wasn't in the book either) seems tacked-on. I think if she wasn't the biggest star in the cast a lot of that crap wouldn't have made it to the final movie at all. I thought Eowyn was great, she looked just like I would have imagined her and I can't wait to see her in armor and holding a sword in the next movie. I didn't like what they did with Eomer, but I didn't think it was horrible. Also thought that the Theoden being possessed by Saruman was kinda cheesy, but his transformation was pretty cool. Would have liked to see more of the Hurons killing orcs but the part with the ents destroying Isengard was great. I loved the part where Aaragorn and Gimli go out and defend the gate, but Eomer should have been with them. I hated the Faramir thing. He was so cool in the book and I didn't see any reason for the change in him. I did like the actor that played him though. Didn't think much of Frodo attacking Sam, but I guess I can see why they put it in. There were a whole host of little things that I would have done differently if it was my movie, but really the only things that really bothered me were the Faramir thing and the stupid tacked-on Aaragorn dream sequence.

01-03-2003, 01:02 PM	#88 (permalink)
Zignor Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 196 -1 Internets	Exactly. Arwen isn't there simply for the benefit of Aragorn. She also represents to the film a concept that Tolkien wove through all of his tales of Middle Earth. The immortality of the Elves is very important, and understanding the significance of Valinor (The Undying Lands) and the Grey Havens will be crucial for the final scenes of RoTK to have the impact that they should. Jackson and crew couldn't of explained this in the way that the books did. It would take too long, and still demand deviations from the text in order to fit into the films. In that respect Arwen serves a dual purpose to the story. Purists whining about her (and the Helm's Deep Elves) presence need to realize that a huge theme of Tolkien's would of been lost in the translation if not for their inclusion, or if not them, some other equally different-from-the-books plot device.