TTT - great movie

[Darkmyst]

Gollum was done very well. I liked how P Jack showed Gollum's two sides and his voice was just as how I pictured it.

All about Gollum was perfect except one thing. His voice. Everytime his non evil persona was talking I got this horrifying flashback of Jar Jar Binks. Towards the end of the movie I was honeslty dreading him coming back on screen.

[Synd D`nys]

I'd also be surprised if Gollum bites Frodo's finger off at the end.

They BETTER leave that in. It's kinda a huge part of the story.

Oh, and it's Oliphaunt, just FYI.

[Diakonov]

need your help guys.

I have been arguing with my friends about this and they think that the horse the who retrieved Aragorn was Bill (the horse Sam is in love with) . I don't have a copy of the Fellowship with me atm but i am sure someone knows the answer.

Adios!!
Bedbug-VZ

[Zignor]

Bill was a pony. The horse Aragorn rode in TTT was named Brego.

[Jobrill]

Now that I've had a day to mull over it, I've decided, I liked it. Once again, Peter Jackson has created just about every locale, race, and person in Middle-Earth almost exactly how I pictured it in my own daydreams. Man, he's good. When I saw Treebeard, I was like. Yep, that's him. Same with Gollum, who has to be the BEST CGI character ever used in a live action flick so far. Eat your Heart out, George Lucas. Also, I believe at one point Gollum was singing the song the Barrow-wight was singing back in Book 1 if I remember right, so that was cool. Helms deep did in fact kick arse. I didn't even mind Legolas on the shield.

But, I hear a lot of grumbling against the movie, so I figger, Here's my take on some of the complaints.

"Sarumen possesing Theoden."

Not something that happened in the book. However, To me this is an understandable thing. Reading the book, although Theoden didn't nessisarily have a magic spell cast on him, He was very much under the sway of Darkness and Despair bought about by Saruman, and in such a way WAS Indeed possessed by Saruman. This, I believe, is a case of not really being able to tell it how it is exactly in the book, and, instead, magnifying the problem a couple times in order to get it across in the movie. Same with Eomer's Banishment. He was VERY out of favor with the King thanks to Wormtongues smooth words. And even with Theoden being arrogant afterwards...well, He was. He was in many ways very much an Proud Nordic Warrior-king.

"The Ents deciding not to go to war till they see the ravaged forest."

Well, that's pretty much what tears it in the book. Treebeard and the others go to war because Saruman is tearing down thier forest. Once again, this is a case of having to work with visuals rather than the written word, and what better way to do that than show the reluctance of the Ents that was evident even in the books by magnifying it with a failed council? It works for me. Besides, the Ent's destruction of Isengard was GREAT. I had to restrain myself from standing up and cheering in the theatre at that part.

"Treebeard deferring to Gandalf"

Well, Gandalf is only a demi-god. As it is, I believe I recall Treebeard speaking favorably/revrently about Gandalf in the book anyway. We're talking about an all powerful wizard, and now one who has risen from the dead. Treebeard SHOULD defer to this guy. He might favor Radagast a bit more cuz he's closer to nature, but Gandalf is now the head honcho with the fall of Saruman.

"The Rohirrm getting attacked on way to Helm's Deep."

Once again, this is sort of a Magnification thing. The Rohirrim were having trouble with orcs, and the Threat of Saruman was very close. This brings home the whole thing.

"Aragorn going off a cliff in that fight."

Obviously an addition, but one that lets Jackson tie up a few lose ends, In that we see Arwen again, and we get some idea of what Theoden and crew are up against in Helm's deep. It also gives a chance to show some more character development for Legolas and Gimli and Eowyn.

"Frodo attacking Sam."

This is another case of Magnifying. The Ring is taking it's hold on Frodo, and since this the written word, we can't rely on long interior monologues from Frodo, or long speeches. It makes it more clear to the unintiated, and what better way than to have Frodo lose control and attack his dearest friend?

"The elves defending Helm's Deep with the Rohirrm..."

Once again, It didn't break the basic spirit of the book, and I think this is magnifying once again how it went with the Elves, who are abandoning the middle earth in droves, but still love it enough to want to defend it to some extent...There is something Melancholy and defiant there.

"Faramir attempting to take Frodo and the Ring."

This one DID bother me greatly. One of the great things about book-Faramir (which made him my favorite character besides), was that he was noble and thoughtful, and very much a throwback to the Noble Numenoreans of old. Admittedly tho, He did struggle with the ring even in the book, even if only for a second. I personally would have liked to simply see Sam tell him off in the caves about Boromir, and perhaps hear Faramir tell of his and Boromirs shared dream with "Seek for the sword that was broken..." and have them go on thier way, learning from the fate of his brother. This was a major stumble. However, If his character is put back on track in RoTK with Denethor calling him the wizard's pupil and whatnot, and his nobleness and tenderness in the Houses of Healing, I can forgive Jackson.

"Arwen/Elrond/Aragorn Scenes"

Read the Silmarillion and the Appendix in RoTK sometime. The Courtship of Aragorn and Arwen and Elrond's basic reaction to it weren't far off the mark. Jackson stayed true to thier basic characters I believe.

"Gimli as comic relief"

I don't mind this. Look at the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings and the dwarf race in general. They've always been gruff, yet comical people with a love of good food and drink and a love of good stories and music. Gimli's telling tales to Eowyn bought a smile to my face, and yes, I did giggle at some the comic relief scenes. But these worked. They bought out aspects of Gimli's character and his history as a proud member of a proud race. I also enjoyed that Legolas' and Gimli's friendship was developed a lot more in this book. The Orc battle and Legolas' defense of Gimli against Eomer helped highlight the growing bond between two members of two traditionally conflicting races.

I think, also, overall, all the additional Action scenes, in Osgiliath, on the way to Helms Deep, etc, are to me, probably a good Idea. Who has not heard from friends "Yeah, I wanted to like the books, but Two Towers was so boooooooring." Two Towers, in many ways, is more cerebral, so by putting a lot more stuff in action, Peter Jackson I think has drawn some of these people in a lot more, while still staying true to the spirit of the book.

In the end, Books don't Translate well to movies. If Faramir's character is the only major blunder Peter Jackson makes (Well, that and never giving Merry a Sword capable of killing the Witch King), He'll be MILES ahead of where other people are. This movie was very different than the book, but the Two Towers was a complicated book. He did what he could to try to translate the book, magnifying some plot lines to bring them out of the characters internal thoughts and into action. If he can repair the blunder with Faramir next movie, I'll be completely happy again.

Also, It'll be a Crime if Andy Serkis (Gollum) does not win best supporting actor at the oscars.

[MorinkhanMT]

I have been arguing with my friends about this and they think that the horse the who retrieved Aragorn was Bill (the horse Sam is in love with) . I don't have a copy of the Fellowship with me atm but i am sure someone knows the answer.

Well... in the books, that entire scene never occurs, so it's safe to say you win the argument =)

[Heylel Teomim]

I think Faramir's scenes are just fine. In the book he's a throwback to Numenor, true. In this new film, he's about as close to immune to the ring as any human has reacted. Boromir fell under its sway more than he did just by being at the council. Faramir in the film doesn't want the ring for himself, he wants it for his father. He's being a dutiful son. If he were truly falling to the ring, he would have taken it for his own the instant he saw it.

It develops the character the way it needs to be done. For him to simply release Frodo immediately would break the sense of duty necessary for him to be regarded as so noble among men.

I liked this movie alot. Two Towers is a very slow book, even for Tolkien, but Jackson managed to translate it quite well to the screen.

Heylel

[Synd D`nys]

The horse Aragorn rode in TTT was named Brego.

Actually, it was Hasufel. Legolas' was Arod.

[Lhon]

Originally posted by Schezanna
I'd also be surprised if Gollum bites Frodo's finger off at the end.

Why? It's already been foreshadowed with Gandalf's comment in FotR that Gollum still has a part to play.

[Voron]

The movie was beautifully done, but it sorta became like a trainwreck for me about half way in... just TOO MANY MAJOR PLOT AND CHARACTER CHANGES.

Aragorn and the cliff: what the hell was the point of that?

Elves leaving for Valinor in TTT?? Elrond, Galadriel, etc. don't leave until after Sauron is defeated at the end of RotK.

Elves coming to help at helm's deep?? This might have been the most ridiculous and illogical part of the movie.

Frodo, Sam and Gollum taken to Gondor?? close runner up to the most ridiculous part.

Characters of Faramir, Theoden and Eowyn were changed drastically.

There was other stuff that annoyed me, but I don't wanna go into minor details.


The good:

Gollum was absolutely perfect. Hands down best character in the movie.

Ents for the most part were done very well. The destruction of Isengard was incredible.

The scenery and the battles in general were eye-popping.


If I hadn't read the book, I wouldn't have been annoyed about the inconsistancies, and would've enjoyed the movie a lot more.


P.S. Just wondering what others thought of the scene where Aragorn and Gimli jump in front of helm deep's gates and start slaughtering orcs? Personally, I thought it looked extremely cheesy and unbelievable, especially if compared to the relative realism of other battle scenes.

[Zurren]

Well, I saw it for a 2nd time tonight. While I was less 'awe-struck' then the first time. The things that bugged me the first time around didnt bug me so much the 2nd time around (ie: Gilimi), however.. I still think his short-jokes could of been left out of helm's deep to retain the tension.

While LoTR is not an exact translation to the book. I do think it is a very well adaptation which keeps to the spirit of the stories, even if it has added or changed various elements.

Personnaly, I thought the director did a good job at showing the different major plot lines going on w/o confusing the audiance, and didnt feel that he jumped around to fast or lacked strucutre.

The timelines did get a bit skewed however, isnt it apparntly a 2 day trek from the waterfall to gondor? so frodo going to gondor and back sets him off by 4 days .. then as someone pointed out, the ent's meeting was done in 1 day not 3. But, very small things and dont really take away from the movie (and honestly, I woulda been bored in the movie thinking 'whats up with the ents?' if they actually depicted it as being a 3 day meeting... every now and then a random cutscene to a bunch of tree's moaning for 5 mins at the start of a new dawn.. /yawn).

The quality of the bluescreening bothered me at first, but the 2nd time around I was sucked in and didnt even care/notice at all .. I think the 1st time I was watching it a bit more criticaly (even though I loved it) .. the 2nd time, I was just sucked into it even more.

[Zignor]

Actually, it was Hasufel. Legolas' was Arod.

I should have clarified: The horse that movie Aragorn rides in TTT is named Brego.

[Tancred]

I thought it was fine. It suffered a little from having so much ground to cover and not having the 'wow' factor of the first film; very little new eye candy was introduced to amaze us.
Changes to the characters/structure, sure, I'm not going to complain too much. This was always going to be the difficult second act. I think the finale in RotK will be awesome.
I'll agree that some of the fx shots looked a little rushed. It seems plain the bulk of the effort in post-production was spent on Gollum. But OMFG Gollum just stole the entire film for me. Unbelievably awesome - best CG character anywhere ever. I've never seen a CG face move so well and I'm convinced this is the reason gollum owns so much. If the team and actor aren't laden down with gongs for such an achievement it will be a crime.

Lots of stuff I did like though: Wargs, Ents, Legolas' ninja horse-mounting, the two Trolls operating the Black Gate were a superb touch. Helms Deep while spectacular left me curiously underaffected. Maybe due to the somewhat rushed set-up the pay-off was diluted. The dread and hopelessness of 300 vs 10,000 wasn't built up for long enough for the triumphant and innaccurate elven arrival to have much impact. The Ents at Orthanc were awesome but didn't get enough screen time for my liking

I all ready can't wait for the DVD Director's Cut where I expect the film will hang together much better and hopefully have some of the shakier FX scenes touched up. But WTG WingNut. Here's to another 12 months' wait (><)

Edit: My enjoyment of the film was certainly marred by a terrible sound system (had to strain to hear dialogue) and the fact that I was surrounded by rustling, crunching, chewing motherfuckers on every side. I'm going to open a cinema that only sells marshmallows as snack food.

[xmortal]

I thought the movie was fabulous.... a couple notes (I read the books a long time ago so my memory on details was hazy at best)

The thing with Faramir was well done for a movie... His character was as I remember, only magnified to meet demands for visual story telling. Boramir lusted for the ring, and it was obviously so.. Faramir acknowledged that it was the one ring.. was the all powerfull weapon that could be used in defense of Gondor.. Yet he let the Hobbit keep it. He could have snatched it from the hobbit, but he left it on him, and took them to Osgiliath.

Unless I'm mistaken they never made it deep into Gondor so the counting of the days would be skewed. When they were looking at the map and speaking of whos armies were moving from where, they showed Osgiliath was a good distance from like downtown Gondor. Also didn't they speak of the fact that Osgiliath wasn't going to be fully defended, and in fact was already mostly empty? So it wasn't capitol city...?

Also someone mentioned Sting didn't glow in Osgiliath.. I thought about this too, but it seemed as though the orcs and Uruk-Hai were mostly under Saurons control at that point. Most of the other warriors that seemed to make up the brunt of Saurons forces were human? At least it appeared that way from the movie..

The Jar Jar / Smeagol comparisons - I can see how you could thikn that on the surface, but it played out exactly how I had always pictured it. His conflicting personalities needed that drastic difference, and think about it.. He's not the healthiest creature of mind or body.. his voice in both modes felt perfect to me..

The elves in defense of helms deep - This was an action movie. I think he kept it as true to the story as he could and still making it entertaining for everyone, and while the die hards raised an eyebrow when the elves came, when I saw it at the midnight showing the audience cheered when the elves came marching up.. He made it clear that the elves were leaving, but wanted to show they still cared for the land, and alliances that were no more. That is what PJ was looking for there, adding a little hope for the good guys. I thought it flowed nicely..

Gimlli as comic relief.. I know that to us it was humor, but if you think about the lore of dwarven kind, everything was in character for him. He wasn't telling a joke. As a dwarf realize he was trying to keep up with an elf and a human ranger on a cross country run. The fact that he was talking to himself and urging himself along was a tribute to dwarven stamina as I always pictured it. Gimli didn't like horses, so the scen where he falls off fit. Also on the wall before the battle, he was simply making the statement that he couldn't see. He wasn't telling a joke in character.. He is a warrior, and he wanted a better place where he could see over the wall... To us it was funny, but to me it felt right..

The Gimli/Legolas friendship building was great... The defense with the riders of Rohan when Gimli was threatened... The counting of kills.. The looking after each other.. was done great..


I thought it was a great movie.. I refuse to make the distinction of better or worse than FotR because to me they count as 1 story cut into 3 parts for many reasons.. .So unless one of em ends up sucking they all have equal ownage in my eyes....

This waiting a year thing is gonna suck..
I cant wait for the special edition on dvd....

[Voron]

just a funny little thing i forgot to mention:

when the archers were marching in to helm deep's gate and it was still unclear as to who they were, my best friend turned to me and said "if those guys are the elves, i'm walking out of the theater". he didn't walk out of course, but we were both laughing in mild hysteria.