Dark Knight Academy Award Debate... - Page 3

Kaige · 02-21-2009, 08:00 AM

The Joker in Dark Knight showed exactly what the ongoing conflict was all about between the two of them, and then he even mentioned it himself right near the end.

"I think you and I are destined to do this forever."

Tyen · 02-21-2009, 11:14 AM

Ledger was so good that it made Christian Bale's terrible Batman voice stick out even more and it made me sad.

Brikker · 02-21-2009, 12:30 PM

I think it's a pretty safe bet to say Ledger will win best supporting.

Also, for more Gary Oldman goodness: True Romance as the half black Jamaican gangster, and Dracula in Bram Stoker's Dracula.

Ham n Cheese · 02-21-2009, 01:06 PM

God damn what did take me so long on the Astrocreep thing. He says something fucking retarded, gets called out and then tries to use terrible examples to get us to understand what he means.

I think Slumdog was the movie of the year, but as others have said Ledger really made Batman for me. He definitely deserves the award and I'm not saying that because I'm a batman or Ledger fanboy. Without Ledger it's really pretty average. The batman voice was over the top and the stupid thing with cell phones and sonar technology was eye roll worthy.

Communistbloc · 02-21-2009, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ham n Cheese

God damn what did take me so long on the Astrocreep thing. He says something fucking retarded, gets called out and then tries to use terrible examples to get us to understand what he means.

Welcome to 2009!

Burkex · 02-21-2009, 11:47 PM

Ledger's performance deserves to win the best supporting oscar as his performance was one for the ages but the movie itself, The Dark Knight, does not deserve to be nominated for the best picture oscar. Yea it was a very entertaining movie and it killed at the box office but there was no real substance to the movie outside of Ledger's great performance. It was just a typical comic book action movie with explosions, chase scenes and other great eye candy, but it was definitely done better than most comic book/action movies. I would also say the same for The Wrestler. It was a fantastic acting performance but the movie as a whole wasn't that great.

The best picture nominees were all movies with substance and each one makes you think and makes you feel many different emotions while watching them, and of course they were all done very well. Slumdog Millionaire has the most substance out of them all and I think that is why it should win and will win the best picture award although I give Benjimin Button a chance because I thought it was epic.

FulorianC · 02-21-2009, 11:52 PM

Wow. The Dark Knight never once prompted you to think about the world around you? You totally missed the point, then.

Wash · 02-22-2009, 12:23 AM

There was a really great article about this on boston.com today. Here's a quote that sums it up:

Quote:

[...] the Oscars have wobbled insecurely between reflecting what Academy voters think is the best movie of the year and what they want us to think they think is the best movie of the year.

Emphasis mine.

Most average movie-goers, if you ask them, will say that The Dark Knight belongs on the list. That's because most average movie goers saw it (it broke box office records) and liked it.

So what's the difference between The Dark Knight and, say, Titanic, which was an enormous piece of crap that broke box office records, but also got an assload of Oscar nominations, including the most important one? And won most of them, including best picture?

Dark Knight was a superhero movie and that's all. If it had been any other genre the academy would have eaten it up, because it really is an epic. Shit, even The Return of the King got an Oscar-- but it took 3 movies to get there, and its sword-and-steelness made it feel almost like a period piece, so the Academy voters were comfortable voting for it. A superhero movie, they are not, even if it really is the best movie of the year.

I really think it is the best picture of the year, followed closely by Wall-E. Wall-E is some great shit. It didn't get nominated either, though.

But it boils down to that great quote from the article. They don't vote on the best picture of the year. They vote on what they want us to think they think is the best picture of the year.

Burkex · 02-22-2009, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FulorianC

Wow. The Dark Knight never once prompted you to think about the world around you? You totally missed the point, then.

Sure it made me think, all movies do actually, but I wasn't in deep thought for awhile like I was after I saw Slumdog, The Reader, or BButton. Don't get me wrong here, I loved The Dark Knight. I saw it 2x in the theater and bought the DVD. DK is a very entertaining movie but imo it is an "action movie" where every 10 minutes there is an action scene with explosions and fighting and not really a movie of substance and that is prob why it was not up for best picture.

Also, action movies don't really get nominated, in fact the list is very short. Action movies that were nominated that I can think of off the top of my head are: Gladiator, Rocky, The lord of the Rings, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, Braveheart, Raiders of the Lost Arc, Star Wars, and Saving Private Ryan--but all of those action movies are pretty damn epic--The Dark Knight wasn't in the same scale of epicness as these other action movies. Yes it was very entertaining and Heath was amazing but it wasn't truly epic like Braveheart and I think that's what it takes to get nominated as an action movie.

Tramddark Luxdeorum · 02-22-2009, 03:37 AM

By that list, what you're basically saying is that for a movie to be considered epic, it has to have some sort of massive inspirational battle that makes us believe that our struggling heroes can overcome overwhelming odd to pull off the big win.

What we see instead is an epic movie on a more personal level. An unstoppable force against an immovable object to quote the movie.

The Dark Knight isn't just another super hero movie to me. It gives us a glimpse into both character's souls and in the case of the Joker, it made me shiver, just as the Killing Joke did when I read it all those years ago.

The entire basis of the movie is entirely off of that graphic novel. 'What happens when one man has a very bad day?' In that novel, Gordon was tested, and managed to maintain his sanity despite what is done to him.

Batman was once tested, and whether he maintained his sanity after that one bad day was debatable. For the Joker, who knows? According to him, if he's going to have a past, it might as well be multiple choice!(Dark Knight gave this a nod by the multiple retellings of how he got his scars.) In the Dark Knight, its Harvey Dent, who represents a facet of Gotham's soul. He failed to hold up under the strain.

To me, characterizing people as much as the movie did, and showing that sort of an epic battle on a personal level for not just a man's soul, but the entire city is the sort of epic that doesn't need a mass battle against overwhelming odds to get a best picture nomination, maybe its just me.

Other super hero movies tried to do this, but did it in a very cheesy way(Spider-man 1 and 2 with the New Yorkers coming to his aid on the bridge, and deciding to 'forget' what his face looks like on the train?)

I don't know, but I think the Dark Knight transcends the typical 'Super-hero movie' with its focus on characterization and this battle on a personal level above all else. Bale may not deserve a nomination for Batman, this I agree upon, despite having done a better job than any other actor, but I think the movie at least deserved a nod.

Back to the discussion though. Do I think Heath Ledger deserves to win the Oscar? Yes. Yes I do. Will he though? I doubt it. I don't think the Academy would have given the role the time of day had he not died, and I believe that alone should indicate there is something inherently wrong with how they decide who wins what awards.

Now another hot topic in this forum is the Watchmen. Now let's presume for one moment that they decided to do that movie the justice it deserves and not cut out a single scene, and allow it to be three and a half to four hours long, or even broken down into multiple movies. Let's even say it was perfect in this ideal world, the pinnacle of how close an adaptation one can get to such a complex story. It was hailed as one of the greatest stories of our time, not 'comics' not 'graphic novels' but story, period.

Do I think it would win a Best Picture Oscar if such ever occurred? No. Not in a million years. I don't think the Academy would acknowledge it either. And that's frankly, sad.

Mario Speedwagon · 02-22-2009, 03:44 PM

Ledger's Joker was one THE best acting performances I've ever seen in my life. The only person I've ever seen own a character in the same way is DDL.

Agraza · 02-23-2009, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyen

...Christian Bale's terrible Batman voice...

This cannot be overstated.

Mist · 02-23-2009, 09:59 AM

The Dark Knight was not the best movie of the year. The entire Two Face plotline was horrible and a waste of film.

Hatorade · 02-23-2009, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mist

The Dark Knight was not the best movie of the year. The entire Two Face plotline was horrible and a waste of film.

You say so many retarded things I don't know why I am bothering. Without the Two Face plotline half the joker scenes wouldn't have happened. We would not have seen Joker in that wig saying Hiiii. Hell my favorite part is him walking out of the hospital and wondering where all the explosions are clicking the button a bunch of times then freaking out when the place does explode.

I could go on but whatever it was a sub plot that worked well because he wasn't the main focus unlike Spiderman 3.

Flesseck · 02-23-2009, 10:48 AM

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

I have not lost faith in the Oscars, yet...

02-21-2009, 08:00 AM	#31 (permalink)
Kaige The Diet Coke of Evil Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 1,479	The Joker in Dark Knight showed exactly what the ongoing conflict was all about between the two of them, and then he even mentioned it himself right near the end. "I think you and I are destined to do this forever." __________________ Kaige Diplomacy: The ability to tell someone to go to Hell so that they'll look forward to making the trip.

02-21-2009, 01:06 PM	#34 (permalink)
Ham n Cheese The sky calls to us Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Houston Posts: 12,430 +58 Internets	God damn what did take me so long on the Astrocreep thing. He says something fucking retarded, gets called out and then tries to use terrible examples to get us to understand what he means. I think Slumdog was the movie of the year, but as others have said Ledger really made Batman for me. He definitely deserves the award and I'm not saying that because I'm a batman or Ledger fanboy. Without Ledger it's really pretty average. The batman voice was over the top and the stupid thing with cell phones and sonar technology was eye roll worthy. __________________

02-21-2009, 11:47 PM	#36 (permalink)
Burkex It's Lord of the Flies time. Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,477 -77 Internets	Ledger's performance deserves to win the best supporting oscar as his performance was one for the ages but the movie itself, The Dark Knight, does not deserve to be nominated for the best picture oscar. Yea it was a very entertaining movie and it killed at the box office but there was no real substance to the movie outside of Ledger's great performance. It was just a typical comic book action movie with explosions, chase scenes and other great eye candy, but it was definitely done better than most comic book/action movies. I would also say the same for The Wrestler. It was a fantastic acting performance but the movie as a whole wasn't that great. The best picture nominees were all movies with substance and each one makes you think and makes you feel many different emotions while watching them, and of course they were all done very well. Slumdog Millionaire has the most substance out of them all and I think that is why it should win and will win the best picture award although I give Benjimin Button a chance because I thought it was epic. __________________ "If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love." My favorite comment (-1): "Your posts make me want to gouge my own eyes out."

02-23-2009, 10:48 AM	#45 (permalink)
Flesseck Greek Freak Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Greece Posts: 1,327	Spoiler Alert, click show to read: Ledger won bitches. Chea. Rejoice. I have not lost faith in the Oscars, yet... __________________ WoW - Flesseck / L80 Draenei Shaman / Bloodscalp

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02-21-2009, 11:14 AM	#32 (permalink)
Tyen The future, I came from it Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,664 +3 Internets	Ledger was so good that it made Christian Bale's terrible Batman voice stick out even more and it made me sad.

02-21-2009, 12:30 PM	#33 (permalink)
Brikker Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,405	I think it's a pretty safe bet to say Ledger will win best supporting. Also, for more Gary Oldman goodness: True Romance as the half black Jamaican gangster, and Dracula in Bram Stoker's Dracula.

02-21-2009, 11:52 PM	#37 (permalink)
FulorianC Real Life Apologist Join Date: May 2003 Location: Denton, Texas Posts: 2,037	Wow. The Dark Knight never once prompted you to think about the world around you? You totally missed the point, then.

02-22-2009, 03:37 AM	#40 (permalink)
Tramddark Luxdeorum Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 183 -4 Internets	By that list, what you're basically saying is that for a movie to be considered epic, it has to have some sort of massive inspirational battle that makes us believe that our struggling heroes can overcome overwhelming odd to pull off the big win. What we see instead is an epic movie on a more personal level. An unstoppable force against an immovable object to quote the movie. The Dark Knight isn't just another super hero movie to me. It gives us a glimpse into both character's souls and in the case of the Joker, it made me shiver, just as the Killing Joke did when I read it all those years ago. The entire basis of the movie is entirely off of that graphic novel. 'What happens when one man has a very bad day?' In that novel, Gordon was tested, and managed to maintain his sanity despite what is done to him. Batman was once tested, and whether he maintained his sanity after that one bad day was debatable. For the Joker, who knows? According to him, if he's going to have a past, it might as well be multiple choice!(Dark Knight gave this a nod by the multiple retellings of how he got his scars.) In the Dark Knight, its Harvey Dent, who represents a facet of Gotham's soul. He failed to hold up under the strain. To me, characterizing people as much as the movie did, and showing that sort of an epic battle on a personal level for not just a man's soul, but the entire city is the sort of epic that doesn't need a mass battle against overwhelming odds to get a best picture nomination, maybe its just me. Other super hero movies tried to do this, but did it in a very cheesy way(Spider-man 1 and 2 with the New Yorkers coming to his aid on the bridge, and deciding to 'forget' what his face looks like on the train?) I don't know, but I think the Dark Knight transcends the typical 'Super-hero movie' with its focus on characterization and this battle on a personal level above all else. Bale may not deserve a nomination for Batman, this I agree upon, despite having done a better job than any other actor, but I think the movie at least deserved a nod. Back to the discussion though. Do I think Heath Ledger deserves to win the Oscar? Yes. Yes I do. Will he though? I doubt it. I don't think the Academy would have given the role the time of day had he not died, and I believe that alone should indicate there is something inherently wrong with how they decide who wins what awards. Now another hot topic in this forum is the Watchmen. Now let's presume for one moment that they decided to do that movie the justice it deserves and not cut out a single scene, and allow it to be three and a half to four hours long, or even broken down into multiple movies. Let's even say it was perfect in this ideal world, the pinnacle of how close an adaptation one can get to such a complex story. It was hailed as one of the greatest stories of our time, not 'comics' not 'graphic novels' but story, period. Do I think it would win a Best Picture Oscar if such ever occurred? No. Not in a million years. I don't think the Academy would acknowledge it either. And that's frankly, sad.

02-22-2009, 03:44 PM	#41 (permalink)
Mario Speedwagon Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: 3rd Place Posts: 2,121 -47 Internets	Ledger's Joker was one THE best acting performances I've ever seen in my life. The only person I've ever seen own a character in the same way is DDL.