Religulous

[Kolle]

there is one truth in these types of debates that completely negates anything and everything a christian can possibly say. the bible has errors. it has flaws. it has mistakes. parts of it are wrong. that should end any discussion. debating god, the idea of god, philosophy...it doesn't apply at all. the christian religion is based on only one thing: the bible. no christian alive today was present with jesus, moses, noah, adam, or any of those characters. the bible is it. the bible is capable of being wrong.

in any case, i'm sure this movie will be good. it may wake up a few people. for a kid that has been brainwashed from day one and into adulthood...that's a difficult thing to erase. some people will be smart enough to get out of that thinking, but most won't. they need a lot of help to break free. things like this movie can help get that process started for at least some.

the talk about keeping the movie out of certain areas has a good point to be made: exposure. that's the one thing that most religious people do not allow. the vast majority of religious families will brainwash their children with one particular religion. they won't honestly expose them to different ways of thinking. most of the time the kid will have to do it themselves. that will most likely be on the internet.

[Castigator]

Originally Posted by Kolle

there is one truth in these types of debates that completely negates anything and everything a christian can possibly say. the bible has errors. it has flaws. it has mistakes. parts of it is wrong. that should end any discussion. debating god, the idea of god, philosophy...it doesn't apply at all. the christian religion is based on only one thing: the bible. no christian alive today was present with jesus, moses, noah, adam, or any of those characters. the bible is it. the bible is capable of being wrong.

Sure there's arguments against this

/acends the pulpit, rapping heavily on an old leatherbound and earmarked copy of the bible

"HEATHEN! There are no mistakes in the book of GOD! Only your small and unbelieving mind is fearful of seeing the truth and connecting all the dots! Your reckoning will come! And that is the TRUTH!!!"


In my next live, I wanna be religious. Life's just so awsomely easy that way.

[Zaniel]

Originally Posted by Castigator

In my next live, I wanna be religious. Life's just so awsomely easy that way.

That is such an awesome if unintentional line. I would venture to guess your view of a religion-based life differs somewhat from real life results for most of history.

[Zerai]

Originally Posted by Zaniel

That is such an awesome if unintentional line. I would venture to guess your view of a religion-based life differs somewhat from real life results for most of history.

I think he was more going for the "Ignorance is Bliss" line of thinking.

[Zaniel]

Originally Posted by Zerai

I think he was more going for the "Ignorance is Bliss" line of thinking.

I assumed both. I doubt spending your whole life as Average Joe worried over going to the Burning Pits is too much fun either, not just the whole lions & missionairies thing.

[GrobbeeTrull2.0]

I love when Atheists/Agnostics get in such a frenzy that they start arguing with each other if one thinks the other is being too sympathetic to "those crazy religious people."

i.e: Pinchandroll and Gryeyes.

I'm not sure what the big deal is. So what, billions of people believe in some sort of diety. Surely the world is coming to an end, and has been for the past millenia. You paint religious people as stupid and barbaric, yet until recently it has been religious people that have advanced science to where it is. Clearly they are working against their faith, yes?

I'm not sure where all the hostility comes from, really. What happened that has made all of you so angry at a person's beliefs? And in ranting against someone's freedom to believe such things, what exempts you from hypocrisy when you tell them they shouldn't believe in it?

[Screamfeeder]

Originally Posted by GrobbeeTrull2.0

I'm not sure where all the hostility comes from, really. What happened that has made all of you so angry at a person's beliefs?

This is just a recent example.


It has nothing to do with people in general believing in whatever nonsense bronze age myths they want to believe in. The real problem is that you have people in places of power that will base their political choices off that same bronze age mythos. The general population just happens to lend support via their shared faith.

Now I am not telling what they should or should not believe in. I am just baffled that people can be raised with the ideas of Santa Clause (presents for good behavior), the Easter Bunny (candy for eggs) and the Tooth Fairy (money for body parts) and yet still, even after learning that ll three of these things are completely made up, they still persist in the belief of a super intelligence that does the exact same thing as the three previous super natural beings they learned were made up.

[Zerai]

Originally Posted by GrobbeeTrull2.0

I'm not sure where all the hostility comes from, really. What happened that has made all of you so angry at a person's beliefs? And in ranting against someone's freedom to believe such things, what exempts you from hypocrisy when you tell them they shouldn't believe in it?

The problem with religion is because people don't keep their beliefs personal. That they affect bigger things. Such as Screamfeeder linked. Things like Birth Control, Stem Cell research, creationism in schools. That is why we get pissed off with religion. If they kept it in their churches and to themselves, that'd be great. Instead they try to legislate morality on the rest of us.

Then you also have places like the middle east (including israel). Theocracies are barbaric.

[Nakilos]

The problem with religion is because people don't keep their beliefs personal. That they affect bigger things. Such as Screamfeeder linked. Things like Birth Control, Stem Cell research, creationism in schools. That is why we get pissed off with religion. If they kept it in their churches and to themselves, that'd be great. Instead they try to legislate morality on the rest of us.

This is pretty much it. Keep your imaginary friends to yourself, and I'll leave you alone.

[Gryeyes]

Originally Posted by GrobbeeTrull2.0

And in ranting against someone's freedom to believe such things, what exempts you from hypocrisy when you tell them they shouldn't believe in it?

Beliefs arent being argued. Historical fact of how the church conducts itself is.

[Coren]

Originally Posted by Kolle

there is one truth in these types of debates that completely negates anything and everything a christian can possibly say. the bible has errors. it has flaws. it has mistakes.

I really have yet to find any errors/flaws that aren't due to translation/transcription errors and the like.

I've spent many many hours of research into looking into errors and figuring out they weren't errors after all.

[Coren]

Originally Posted by Surlok TP

There isn't any answer to it, there are theories, no more real or believable than any religion is. Science attempts to go back as far as it can but it'll likely never explain it, but it will at least try. Religion can't be bothered, it can't be bothered with many things,its simply easier to ignore it or explain it out.

Guilty of a lot of religious people true, and that's sad. Not everyone though, and not of Christianity itself. Personally though I don't see the point of seperating my beliefs from science. After all, if God started the whole thing, that would mean he'd know more about science than any of us, and thus increasing our scientific understanding would increase knowing some about how God works.

Figuring in what science knows about the history of the earth helped go a long way to understanding why Genesis is actually supportive of the earth being a lot older than 7000 years old.

[Surlok TP]

Originally Posted by GrobbeeTrull2.0

I love when Atheists/Agnostics get in such a frenzy that they start arguing with each other if one thinks the other is being too sympathetic to "those crazy religious people."

i.e: Pinchandroll and Gryeyes.

I'm not sure what the big deal is. So what, billions of people believe in some sort of diety. Surely the world is coming to an end, and has been for the past millenia. You paint religious people as stupid and barbaric, yet until recently it has been religious people that have advanced science to where it is. Clearly they are working against their faith, yes?

I'm not sure where all the hostility comes from, really. What happened that has made all of you so angry at a person's beliefs? And in ranting against someone's freedom to believe such things, what exempts you from hypocrisy when you tell them they shouldn't believe in it?

Have a few friends of various religions. Couple of them are Sikh's , I have one aquiantence that is a Buddhist . I don't have a problem with religion,really Atheism is a religion unto itself with various sects. What I generally take issue with is Christians and Catholics , because obviously in North America these are the dominant religions and more importantly because our daily lives are most affected by them. Our Governments,Provinces, states and municipalities all cater to Religious ideals regularly. The proverbial separation of State from God doesn't exist. Many towns are Theocracies , many laws are passed based on religion see the debate's currently about Gay Marriage's for example.

There is no reason that Christians shouldn't be able to go to church every Sunday and do their thing and go home. My friends that are Sikh have their own temples and their own rules and they don't push them on people, hell they don't even let you know unless you specifically ask.

Want some of this? No thank you, My god doesn't allow me to. Done ; End of discussion, ok man cool np. We just had a guy quit recently from work who constantly preached,who constantly pointed out our sins and how we were all fucked. I get it, you worship god, whatever, leave me the fuck alone.


Why can Gay people not get married? Are they scared that priests might all of a sudden start trying to marry other priests? Why can't their be more sex on TV and in movies why does censorship have to be so strict, why can't we have a strip club in a town that is 80% Christians. Christians like strippers to. I know because I have friends that are Christians that come to them with me, the town has the population to support it but for some reason allowing it might allow their young adult Christians into a world they don't know and it might undo the brainwashing? I don't know .


Christians and Catholics have a bad reputation because they can't stay the fuck out of everyone elses buisness. They can't be happy with simply not partaking in things they deem sinful, they actually have to try and create laws against it, or prevent movies from being seen by their delegations. If they are so concerned about the well being of thier followers shouldn't they be addressing that internally. If you need to try so hard to protect these people from sin, maybe these people aren't as faithful as you thought they were? Is that bad? I just don't get it.

There are plenty of other religions out there that get by just fine surrounded by things they can't consume or see or do and they manage to avoid those things without disgracing their god and they don't need the help of the Governments to do it, why can't Christians and Catholics do the same?

[Coren]

Originally Posted by Surlok TP

Christians and Catholics have a bad reputation because they can't stay the fuck out of everyone elses buisness. They can't be happy with simply not partaking in things they deem sinful, they actually have to try and create laws against it, or prevent movies from being seen by their delegations. If they are so concerned about the well being of thier followers shouldn't they be addressing that internally. If you need to try so hard to protect these people from sin, maybe these people aren't as faithful as you thought they were? Is that bad? I just don't get it.

Too be fair though, while that's a problem with some Christians/Catholics etc, a lot of times it's really just people trying to *use* religion to further their agenda. Religion has always been a convenient route to power for those unethical enough to use it as such.

But yah, that's a problem here in the US - the country was founded on a premise of religious freedom, so while being Christian myself, I know that passing laws based on Christianity (or as importantly, on one's interpretation of that) moves us away from what the country was founded upon.

[Surlok TP]

Originally Posted by Coren

Too be fair though, while that's a problem with some Christians/Catholics etc, a lot of times it's really just people trying to *use* religion to further their agenda. Religion has always been a convenient route to power for those unethical enough to use it as such.

Fair enough, Jack Thompson is an excellent example.

Thing is , that sort of exploitation wouldn't be as preveleant if the religions didn't try doing it themselves in the first place. They are partly to blame for it and it's certainly preventable.

The things Jehovah's witnesses do with the door to door crap is ridiculous, but really Christians and Catholics beliefs fall into the same category for most people because it feels just as obtrusive as what that organization does.

It would take generations to undue the animosity of Crhistians and Catholics, in fact I don't think it can ever be undone because it hasn't simply been modern history where that belief system has been pushed on Cultures, it's only in recent history where it wasn't done so violently but the travesties of the past won't likely be forgotten anymore than how it is currently handled will.

Christians would do well to accept that people just don't want to believe and people jsut want to live their lives beyond the influence and leave it at that. I don't see that happening though because of the greed and power struggles that exist within the church. The Church is guilty of a lot of Good in the world to be sure, but you don't need to be religious to wave the flag of good and that shouldn't be an excuse for all the bad it does.