Religulous

[Burkex]

Originally Posted by Agraza

Thank you Bill Maher.

QFT

Originally Posted by Snugglebear

In the Bible Belt, I don't know what we have exactly,

Stupidity, ignorance, and so on.

Originally Posted by Millie

It doesn't look like the kind of movie that's going to reach the right crowds to challenge the right minds. It's just going to be dismissed offhand, if it's even shown at all, in the Bible Belt.

The thing about these movies is that people do not have to actually see them for them to make an impact in the world. They are talked about and create discussion. Just opening up the discussion on Religion is a big step.

Just like how McCain talked about Michael Moore's movies at the GOP Convention:

He didn't see the movies but they generated a discussion in the media and the public.

[PerritoBites]

Just opening up the discussion on Religion is a big step.

I agree. Something you often hear strong atheists talk about is that religion seems exempt from criticism in our society. You can talk about someone's political views, their way of eating, etc, but can't talk about their religious beliefs. As soon as you question someone's beliefs they go into taboo mode!

[Pinchandroll]

Judging from that preview, it looks like he's just going for clever lines that will get a reaction from his interviewees, and there doesn't appear to be much emphasis on real arguments (except the bit with the doctor). But, I guess this way he'll make more money, have a more polarizing effect, and save himself a lot of time and research, all of which benefit him the most so I'm sure he's happy. This film probably won't change anyone's mind or bring anything new to the table, but I'm sure the people on his side will feel good about themselves and the religious people will be annoyed or upset, which is clearly his goal. In the same way, the Ben Stein movie will probably have an equal and opposite effect, and around and around it goes...

/yawn

[spronk]

its ok to talk about it in code though, like Romney is "not right for us" (aka a mormon) or "I just don't know enough about Obama" (aka he's a muslim). You always heard those two phrases when they interviewed fat white people during the campaigns.

You do sometimes get the feeling in America its inevitable that at some point the country is going to have to split between the secularist technocrats and the conservative fundamentalists. Perhaps it will take something like human cloning or immortality through nanotech or downloading into AI systems to finally erupt the schism into the open and split the country in two.

In most of Europe and Asia its receding, pretty much secularism has won out and religious is viewed as something secondary to economic, political, and social policies. But in Africa, Middle East, North America, and South America (excepting Canada, etc) religion constantly strives for supremacy.

[Surlok TP]

Originally Posted by Vodo4321

The argument I always like to throw out is three points thats cant be reconciled:

1) God is omnipotent, he is 100% all powerful and capable of doing anything.
2) God is good, he is the image of pure benevolence and everything that is good.
3) There is evil in the world.


You just cant reconcile all 3 of those statements logically, so bring on the protesters for this movie hehe.

1) Allah is omnipotent, he is 100% all powerful and capable of doing anything.
2) Allah is good, he is the image of pure benevolence and everything that is good.
3) There is evil in the world.



Uh oh.....

[Snugglebear]

I had to rent Sicko. Farenheit 9/11 I saw while in Florida, but I don't know if it came here.

I doubt this will impact Bill Maher's career on HBO. Remember, he got kicked off a broadcast network for saying suicide bombers are brave.

I do remember when Passion of the Christ came out. What the fuck. I had this one guy lauding praise on it, claiming that people were running up after the movie and 'getting saved' which I did not understand.

[Screamfeeder]

Originally Posted by Pinchandroll

Judging from that preview, it looks like he's just going for clever lines that will get a reaction from his interviewees, and there doesn't appear to be much emphasis on real arguments (except the bit with the doctor).

Yeah, because we all know there are some real arguments to me made for the omnipotent, omnipresent super intelligence who dwells in a separate dimension and who chooses to violently enforce his will until he kills his own son in an effort to save the rest of humanity from a horrible place of ultimate evil that he had to have created, all the while decrying gays and shellfish (which he created) and forcing man to live counter to the very ways in which he created them.

Yeah, why didn't Bill Maher attack that stuff with REAL arguments instead of jokes?!?!?!?!

[Cantatus]

Originally Posted by Nakilos

I can't see this having any real backlash, because realistically, the people who will watch the movie either 1) watch/like Bill Maher or 2) share similar views. Like Millie said he is preaching to the choir, I mean you see it on his show even, his audience is like a bunch of sheep. He says something to the effect of "talking snake" and the audience cheers, and these types of people will absolutely see his movie.

There are people who will protest the movie purely because of its subject matter. It doesn't matter if they're in the "choir" or not. Just look at movies like The Golden Compass and Dogma.

[Fammaden]

Originally Posted by Screamfeeder

Yeah, because we all know there are some real arguments to me made for the omnipotent, omnipresent super intelligence who dwells in a separate dimension and who chooses to violently enforce his will until he kills his own son in an effort to save the rest of humanity from a horrible place of ultimate evil that he had to have created, all the while decrying gays and shellfish (which he created) and forcing man to live counter to the very ways in which he created them.

Yeah, why didn't Bill Maher attack that stuff with REAL arguments instead of jokes?!?!?!?!

Well, I think religion is laughably bunk too, but there are more serious types of debates to be had between people who are studied and practiced in actual intellectual and philosophical discourse from one side or the other. Obviously no one usually changes their minds but that shouldn't be the point. I like hearing what they have to say simply in order to know the opposing viewpoint and sometimes research what replies have been made to what arguments throughout history.

What I find is that in the end all the debate ends up boiling down to faith when all is said and done. I've seen the whole thing played out in real life and online so many times that I don't even care any more. This flick knows its target audience. I'm tired to death of religious discussion but I never get bored with stuff that satirizes and ridicules topics that I agree to be deserving of that treatment. The other side is the same way, people dig being told things that they already believe or think they believed already after they hear it.

[Simas]

Originally Posted by Coren

Eh, at the risk of sounding like one of the "crazy evangelical" types, I've reconciled this ages ago.

Just takes reading enough to realize that God's power operates on laws that get taught throughout the Bible - God took several thousand years and required the help of man (Abraham especially) to be able to undo Adam's mistake. Once reaching that level of understanding, one can just laugh at the whole "Can God make a wall so strong that he can't break?" arguments.

Once God gave the earth to Adam, and Adam pissed it away, the Earth was no longer God's anymore to just "remove all the evil" out of it. Thus, there is nothing that needs reconciled in your statement.

Im sorry but you did not reconcile anything at all. You denied 1.

1. Says God is all powerful

If God requires the help of man he is not all powerful.

Not to say youre right or wrong, but you did not reconcile the three, you denied the 1st claim.

The common way out of the evil argument for Christians is free-will. I think its extremely weak, but it is the common argument used to reconcile the three.

[Pasteton]

wow, this thread hasnt doomed itself yet? typically anytopic even offhandedly involving religion will turn into a battle between the 1 or 2 religious but vocal guys on this board fighting against the 50-60 agnostic/atheist posters, a few of whom are deluded into thinking that their fervent hatred of religion is somehow any less annoying than the religious nuts.

back on topic though, I think this film would be better approached as a comedy. Bill maher is no michael moore, and I hope this movie reflects that. I'm sure a few intelligent things will be said, but nothing particularly new to the discussion; most of the entertainment will likely come from the people having seizures at those baptist faith festivals or whatever theyre called.

[Coren]

Originally Posted by Simas

Im sorry but you did not reconcile anything at all. You denied 1.

1. Says God is all powerful

If God requires the help of man he is not all powerful.

Not to say youre right or wrong, but you did not reconcile the three, you denied the 1st claim.

The common way out of the evil argument for Christians is free-will. I think its extremely weak, but it is the common argument used to reconcile the three.

There's nothing in the Bible that claims that God is above his own word. Thus there's nothing to reconcile. Basicly I'm stating that those 3 points simply fail to give the whole picture. (Nor am I really denying 1...there's just more to it than that.)

Analogy time. (Theoretical situation.)

1. I'm quite good with a shotgun and capable of blowing away someone with it if I choose.
2. I'm a good person.
3. There's a creep down the street getting kids hooked on meth that I haven't gone and blown away.

So, even though I feel he deserves it, if I get the help of the police to take care of the guy, does that deny #1? Nope. There's just more behind the reason that I haven't dealt with #3.

[Sharmai]

Originally Posted by Vodo4321

The argument I always like to throw out is three points thats cant be reconciled:

1) God is omnipotent, he is 100% all powerful and capable of doing anything.
2) God is good, he is the image of pure benevolence and everything that is good.
3) There is evil in the world.


You just cant reconcile all 3 of those statements logically, so bring on the protesters for this movie hehe.

Wow your all doing it wrong. God by definition is super natural. Thereby outside the laws of nature and of course the logic of man. Meaning yes he can make a rock to heavy for him to lift yet still lift it at the same time. No it does not make logical sense. God is not bound to the logic of man.


And I am not even a believer and I came up with that years ago..

[mek]

Here you guys, enjoy your philosophy class.

Robert C. Koons: Phl 327 Lecture #21

[Xakk]

Originally Posted by Coren

1. I'm quite good with a shotgun and capable of blowing away someone with it if I choose.
2. I'm a good person.
3. There's a creep down the street getting kids hooked on meth that I haven't gone and blown away.

So, even though I feel he deserves it, if I get the help of the police to take care of the guy, does that deny #1? Nope. There's just more behind the reason that I haven't dealt with #3.

This is a really piss poor analogy. What is god's cosmic police?

Originally Posted by Sharmai

Wow your all doing it wrong. God by definition is super natural. Thereby outside the laws of nature and of course the logic of man. Meaning yes he can make a rock to heavy for him to lift yet still lift it at the same time. No it does not make logical sense. God is not bound to the logic of man.

And I am not even a believer and I came up with that years ago..

If that's that type of God you believe in.

Many philosophers believed that God was reason and logic.

Once you throw out logic that grilled cheese sandwich with jesus face on it makes sense.