For debate: Judd Apatow killed Adam Sandler and Will Ferrell.

[Millie]

A friend and I had a pretty lively discussion the other day about whether modern comedies in the vein of Judd Apatow's work -- with their adult themes, realistic approach to dialogue and characters, and slice-of-life premises -- have ended the era of goofy, outlandish, "star vehicle" comedies the likes of which made Adam Sandler's and Will Ferrell's careers.

Essentially, pick a side and argue a position:

Position 1: The era of the goofball comedy is over, be it for the time being or indefinitely. This is evident in the deminishing returns that Adam Sandler, Will Ferrell, the Farrelly Brothers, and others like them get on their new releases. Whether it's because these folks have run out of creative steam, or whether it's because "realistic" comedies have made them irrelevent, their time has come and gone. Audiences have grown more sophisticated.

Position 2: Comedy tastes are cyclical, and the next young Adam Sandler or Will Ferrell will catapult the goofball comedy back to the forefront. Arguably, Seth Rogen has already attained a sort of status as the new Will Ferrell -- only his roles happen to be more "snarky everyman," and less "outrageous, self-absorbed doofus."

Position 3: Goofball comedies haven't gone anywhere. Just because You Don't Mess with the Zohan or The Love Guru suck doesn't mean Adam Sandler and Mike Myers are out of the picture. It just means they'll have to step up their game.

Position 4: We're simply growing up. Kids will still flock to see Adam Sandler's movies, even if we no longer find them funny. It's debatable whether we'd find Sandler's best work -- from Billy Madison to Happy Gilmore -- funny if it were just released today. It doesn't mean these movies aren't good; it just means they're meant for younger crowds.

Obviously this is subjective, and there are no right or wrong answers. But I think it's an interesting topic for spirited debate, and hopefully we can get a heated argument or two going in short order.

[Millie]

I'm having a lot of dumb blonde moments tonight and apologize for accidentally deleting this thread three times. This time it's here to stay. I promise.

[Tuco]

Originally Posted by Millie

A friend and I had a pretty lively discussion the other day about whether modern comedies in the vein of Judd Apatow's work

I don't think you could consider any discussion of this topic lively.

I'm taking position 3 and would additionally argue that click and stranger than fiction are modern comedies!

[Jait]

Jim Carrey, Jerry Lewis, The Three Stooges.

In between each of those there was very little slapstic/physical humor. Of course it's cyclic /bonk

And long before them there was Vaudeville. If we go back far enough Gilgamesh probably had Thogg slap Ragon. A good enough topic for discussion, but thinking it won't return would be a bit silly.

[Millie]

Originally Posted by Tuco

I don't think you could consider any discussion of this topic lively.

I'm taking position 3 and would additionally argue that click and stranger than fiction are modern comedies!

Are you implying that you liked Click? :P

As for Stranger than Fiction, it's a tough call. I mean, you could certainly call it a dark comedy, and I'm sure that's how it was intended. But I don't necessarily think it was meant to be a mainstream Will Ferrell comedy. It was never billed as the next Anchorman and was not intended to be.

[Tuco]

Since you made two posts in this thread, that means I can too!

I would further say that 'goofball' or slapstick comedy will always be funny for as long as there are people who appreciate funny stuff.



People who never find goofy, immature comedy entertaining/funny care too much about being stuck up movie-goers who think too much of themselves.

[Millie]

In some ways, though, I think we can distinguish slapstick from Typical Will Ferrell Vehicle or Typical Adam Sandler Vehicle. I mean, Anchorman had some slapstick moments in it. But the style was less what I'd call "slapstick," and more what I'd simply call "goofy." That's not to say I didn't like Anchorman, although I think it was overrated.

[Szlia]

I am tempted to answer the missing Position 1'. 1' is like 1 except it ends with: "Audiences have grown less sophisticated".

[Millie]

Originally Posted by Szlia

I am tempted to answer the missing Position 1'. 1' is like 1 except it ends with: "Audiences have grown less sophisticated".

Interesting. In what way?

[Surlok TP]

Apatow and Sandler are teaming up....

Untitled Judd Apatow/Adam Sandler Project (2009)

Not sure what relevance that has but ...I dunno. I jsut wanted to take part =)

[PerritoBites]

THe problem with these comedies is that they made way to many of them and most of them were very similar. There are probably around 5 "goofy" movies I like...
-Ace Ventura 1 & 2
-Zoolander
-Austin Powers
-Scary Movie 1

I don't consider Stranger than Fiction to be goofy, but I did like it a lot.

I find 90% of the movies that Adam Sandler makes to be almost the same. Will Ferrel has a bit more variations, but he still falls into repetitive. I believe the current comedic artist ran out of steam, but they won't rise again. I voted towards the cyclical... Eventually there will be new "goofy" comedy actors with original content that will have 1 or 2 good movies, but then they will fall into making the same movies over and over and we will get bored of them!

[Szlia]

While funny (even hilarious at times) the few Apatow productions I have seen are very unimpressive as far as "joke building" goes, both at a film making level and a plot construction level. As movies, they are a lot more crude than some, if not most, "goofy" comedies. Compared to Knocked Up, Austin Powers is Citizen Kane. Anchorman was mentioned earlier: I remember a scene in it where Ferrel is doing prank calls from his office, spying on his co-worker. In this scene, half of the comedic effect comes from the way the filmic space is built. I can't think of something similar in Apatow-branded movies.

In fact you could say that a movie like Knocked Up is not a comedy, but a chunk of life involving people who are funny. It's not the movie that makes you laugh, it's the jokes that the characters say. In that sense, it takes a lot less sophistication to appreciate.

[kegkilla]

sandler hasn't been funny in movies because he hasn't thought up a character in years that didn't make me want to punch him in the face. his company has produced grandma's boy and european gigolo though which were both pretty hilarious. rob schneider > adam sandler imo. the first time i saw the hot chick i laughed harder than i ever had before and i was straight sober. it was pretty fuckin corny but some how rob schneider always delivers for me. on the other hand when i saw chuck and larry last summer i only laughed at one line and it came from steve buschemi. i think its a problem with the characters sandler chooses to portray. they're always some sort of bad ass sports jock, real cool guy or whatever bullshit that i don't buy. schneiders characters are always goofball retard losers that i can totally buy into.

as for ferrell, hes not really a writer i don't think so hes only as good as the material hes given. i personally thought he was hilarious in blades of glory but his supporting cast (heder) kind of dropped the ball. semi pro did suck pretty hard, however. i don't think hes dead by any means, just needs to find a decent script.

40 year old virgin and super bad were the only two apatow movies that i really loved. knocked up i thought blew, forgetting sarah marshall was pretty good, walk hard kind of sucked. a lot of his movies are pretty chick flickish which is always a big turn off for me.

[Dethfang]

Adam Sandler and Will Ferrell became outdated through trying to broaden their appeal to such a large audience. Hollywood ruined their movies. Anchorman is fucking classic... Talladega Nights should have been right up there, but they toned it back and made him less of an insult to Nascar fans and more of a poster child. Adam Sandler and Jim Carrey followed similar paths. They just watered down the sellable parts of their persona to the point that they no longer appeal to their core fan bases.

I think the main difference is that Sandler / Carrey / Ferrell's persona became the vehicle for the plot. With Apatow's movies the plot (however shallow) is the vehicle for the actors' persona.

[Kaige]

They're reusing a lot of the same jokes and material to the point where its played out. Mike Myers is starting to get stuck in that rut now. The first two Austin Powers movies were great, but the third one is watchable. Goldmember was such a patchwork of jokes reused from the first two movies that it didn't really make me laugh at all.

A lot of the movies they do are starting to get more talkative and less active. Its less props and active humor, and more talking about stupid shit. The only one of them thats actually good at talking is Will Ferrell, who seems like he could tell you something absolutely hilarious while keeping a straight face the entire time.