Donnie Darko 2. No, i'm not kidding.

[dak]

Why not make sure you contribute to society before having a say in our government?

That's already the case, it's called paying taxes.

I suppose by contributing to society you mean in the sense the book is talking about I.E. putting your life on the line serving in some military or paramilitary establishment

In that sense the logic against it is simple. The people deciding if you contribute to society enough for suffrage will always end up being corrupt and mobilize the people to agendas based around profiteering. In the real world things are not as clear as "alien bugs are coming to eat the planet, go out and fight or we all die."

Then you are left with a system where in order to have a role in change you must first do their bidding in things you do not agree with in the first place. If you refuse to play along with their militarism you no longer have any say in the matter.

Eventually it will boil down to the current track it is now "world wide wars for profit" except there will be massive armies of those who only participate so they can end the cycle. A system will be formed to weed out the dissident that will cause trouble once given suffrage and they will be sent to the front lines to die or marginalized out through loopholes.

In the end the mantra will be "If you have a problem with your corporate masters wars for profit join their venture and fight for them so you can vote to change it". I'm sure that will work out just fine.

[The Ancient]

Originally Posted by dak

That's already the case, it's called paying taxes.

Where do you live that paying taxes is a requirement for voting?

[dak]

Where do you live that paying taxes is a requirement for voting?

Realistically homeless people are not a voting constituency.

[Blank]

If being a fascist means I get to feel up Denise Richards boobies, I'm all for it.

[Gryeyes]

Pretty pathetic when "paying taxes" is considered the height of civic responsibility.

[dak]

Pretty pathetic when "paying taxes" is considered the height of civic responsibility.

What would you suggest?

[Gryeyes]

Originally Posted by dak

What would you suggest?

I dunno i find the concept of mandatory civil service whether military or otherwise in return for government paid college education and the right to vote appeals to me. A vast swath of the US population has no concept of obligation,discipline or community. I think such a system could have vast benefit for any society. Naturally it could be abused in all sorts of ways. But id have to say the current trend US society seems to be a matter of when it starts to fall apart more than if.

[aychamo_aycono]

Originally Posted by Gryeyes

I dunno i find the concept of mandatory civil service whether military or otherwise in return for government paid college education and the right to vote appeals to me. A vast swath of the US population has no concept of obligation,discipline or community. I think such a system could have vast benefit for any society. Naturally it could be abused in all sorts of ways. But id have to say the current trend US society seems to be a matter of when it starts to fall apart more than if.

Are you saying you should have to serve in the military for the right to vote?

[chaos]

Not necessarily military, but yeah I believe we should have some sort of mandatory government service. But I'm a fascist.

[Ancalagon]

Originally Posted by chaos

Not necessarily military, but yeah I believe we should have some sort of mandatory government service. But I'm a fascist.

Yes, yes you are.

[James]

Originally Posted by aychamo_aycono

Are you saying you should have to serve in the military for the right to vote?

Fuck yeah!

[Tongue]

Although this thread has taken a huge derail I shall contribute more.

I have always liked the government model in Starship Troopers. 'Service equals citizenship' just seems the way to go. Take our current situation for instance. Our current fuckstick leader calls for more time, patience, sacrifice etc. from the American public yet the only people that actually sacrifice are the ones directly involved.

So in that vein why shouldn't people that actually contribute and give back to their country have the most say in how it is governed. The rest of you are just along for the ride.

Then again my view is tainted cuz I actually serve and I'm a pro-military fascist.

[Brando]

I believe it was George C. Marshall who wrote a very compelling memo about why for Democracy to work it must be a shared burden amongst society. But I'm sure both he and I are fascists as well.

[dak]

So in that vein why shouldn't people that actually contribute and give back to their country have the most say in how it is governed. The rest of you are just along for the ride.

Example...Body Armor that keeps our troops alive...

A private company produces it, do they not contribute to their country?

How about the engineer who never even fired a gun because he was too busy learning material science and ballistics physics so he could design working body armor?

How about the school teacher who devoted his life to education and taught several generations of students so one could eventually become that engineer?

How about the guy who jumped through all the hoops to become a certified architect and built the schools that engineer was taught in.

How about the guy who harvested, processed and transported the resources to build that school?

How about the farmer who fed all those people?

What makes the only "worthy and contributing" members of society the ones who put bullets in people for a living? The private sector engineers, scientists and professionals don't need to serve as grunts EVER because their business as usually job skills give back more to the country than what some infantryman guarding a street corner will ever provide. It's an egregious disservice to the stability of the nation to deny the professional base of this country access to citizen rights if they are unwilling to potentially squander their lives and thus a valuable intellectual resources to the nation in some affair where a high school dropout would suffice and probably excel. What do you think Dougie Howser represented in Starship Troopers? Remember the test scores Rico received? You are "serving" and risk getting blown up on a daily basis, that doesn't make you a patriot. You could be serving your country much better if you had hit the books harder, it was your choice not to shape yourself into something more to offer than obedient flesh. The guys working back at home are the force multiplier that separates you from your cold war era weapon wielding, improvised explosive using, malnourished, intel-less adversaries.

Take away the "rest of us" and those who serve in a direct military sense amount to little more than a bunch of nobodies in tattered rags fighting with sticks for nothing.

[Needless]

original thread here
























Where this thread has gone.

on a scale of 1/1000 of course!