Wesley Snipes gets 3 years.

[kegkilla]

Originally Posted by Millie

Personally speaking, I don't think actors and athletes should make 1/100th of what they make these days. But every time I raise that point among friends, I get laughed or bitched at. People need their heroes, I guess. I, on the other hand, think it's ridiculous that someone with a sub-high-school education can make more money in a year than someone with a graduate degree makes in a lifetime.

professional athletes are the best in the world at what they do. even though they aren't necessarily "book smart" it takes a lot of intelligence to be able to compete and succeed in professional sports. for most sports anyway, your awareness of the situation around you, being able to read the situation and react to it in a fraction of a second is absolutely imperative.


actors however i agree are generally dumbasses and shitty at what they do but they look good doing it so they get the job. i'm sure there are plenty of extremely talented actors out there who are just not attractive enough to get good work. its a fucked up industry.

[Millie]

Originally Posted by kegkilla

professional athletes are the best in the world at what they do. even though they aren't necessarily "book smart" it takes a lot of intelligence to be able to compete and succeed in professional sports. for most sports anyway, your awareness of the situation around you, being able to read the situation and react to it in a fraction of a second is absolutely imperative.

You know, I've heard variations on that argument many times, and I just don't buy it. Admittedly I'm not the best person in the world to argue sports. But you can't tell me that playing football for a living deserves tens to hundreds of millions of dollars in compensation. It's not that difficult of a job. The best-of-the-best doctor or lawyer or investment banker works a lot harder at an infinitely more difficult profession, and all except for possibly the latter will never touch a fraction of a football star's salary.

[Twobit Whore]

It's cyclical. Athletes and movie stars didn't used to get paid so much. Most athletes prior to the 60's-70's worked a real job during the offseason.

It's just that the industry is so huge that it pulls in so much money and they want a fair cut. Why should a franchise or a league or a movie studio pull in billions and pay the athlete or actor only 100-200k or something you may call reasonable?

It would take a widescale demolition of the entire system and rebuilding it from scratch and that will never happen. Ticket costs will continue to go up. Licensing fees for shoes and jerseys and more will continue to go up. More and more people will buy products and watch the events and more and more money will be poured into the system and the ones who play the primary role of making it happen will demand 'fair' compensation thus justifying said increases.

[Millie]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

It's cyclical. Athletes and movie stars didn't used to get paid so much. Most athletes prior to the 60's-70's worked a real job during the offseason.

It's just that the industry is so huge that it pulls in so much money and they want a fair cut. Why should a franchise or a league or a movie studio pull in billions and pay the athlete or actor only 100-200k or something you may call reasonable?

It would take a widescale demolition of the entire system and rebuilding it from scratch and that will never happen. Ticket costs will continue to go up. Licensing fees for shoes and jerseys and more will continue to go up. More and more people will buy products and watch the events and more and more money will be poured into the system and the ones who play the primary role of making it happen will demand 'fair' compensation thus justifying said increases.

None of which makes it "cyclical." :P

"Cyclical" implies that it will crash, and salaries will go back to being normal again. I don't see that happening, and you don't seem to, either.

It's just that the industry is so huge that it pulls in so much money and they want a fair cut. Why should a franchise or a league or a movie studio pull in billions and pay the athlete or actor only 100-200k or something you may call reasonable?

Because what they're making far exceeds a fair cut. The movie industry did just fine back when actors were making reasonably large, but not excessively large salaries. Same with professional sports.

In the case of the franchise or studio pulling in billions, most of that is needed to cover overhead costs -- which are driven to even more excessive levels by the stars' salaries. Sports franchises are notoriously bad businesses to own, for example. Very, very few of them actually make their owners any money. By and large, the owners are already billionaires or megamillionaires who buy the franchises as vanity projects.

[Twobit Whore]

At some point it will have to crash. The pool of data we have to draw from is barely 100 years old. That's rather limited.. and the rapid escalation has only been an issue for the last 30 years. The first million dollar athlete wasn't until 1976 and it wasn't any more common until the 80's.

[kegkilla]

Originally Posted by Millie

You know, I've heard variations on that argument many times, and I just don't buy it. Admittedly I'm not the best person in the world to argue sports. But you can't tell me that playing football for a living deserves tens to hundreds of millions of dollars in compensation. It's not that difficult of a job. The best-of-the-best doctor or lawyer or investment banker works a lot harder at an infinitely more difficult profession, and all except for possibly the latter will never touch a fraction of a football star's salary.

i disagree. consider that a football player, or almost any professional athlete for that matter, is putting himself in considerable physical danger every time he takes the field. whenever you walk onto that field there is no guarantee that you are going to come off walking. theres been instances of people dying or becoming paralyzed or crippled with in all major sports, especially with football.

pro athletes aren't working a typical 9-5 either. their job is 24/7 365... when they aren't in season, they are training and preparing for the next season. hate dieting? these guys' diets are watched closely all year long. when they're not practicing, they're working out or studying their next opponent. many of them are involved in PR events such as charitable events with kids and such things like that.

also, very few athletes make the kind of money you're talking about. here is a link to the 2007 eagles' player salaries. the median salary is $805,000 which i'm sure isn't too far from the salary of a top lawyer or doctor. for every guy out there making the millions, theres 50 out there making a meager living in the minors or on a practice team.

[Millie]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

At some point it will have to crash. The pool of data we have to draw from is barely 100 years old. That's rather limited.. and the rapid escalation has only been an issue for the last 30 years. The first million dollar athlete wasn't until 1976 and it wasn't any more common until the 80's.

I hope you're right, believe me. But the economics of the system have so fundamentally changed now that I just don't see the genie ever going back in the bottle.

The days of $100-million athletes might not be able to escalate any further, but I don't see us ever crashing too far.

Originally Posted by kegkilla

i disagree. consider that a football player, or almost any professional athlete for that matter, is putting himself in considerable physical danger every time he takes the field. whenever you walk onto that field there is no guarantee that you are going to come off walking. theres been instances of people dying or becoming paralyzed or crippled with in all major sports, especially with football.

There are millions of blue collar workers, soldiers, etc., putting themselves in even greater harm's way and earning a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of what a professional football player makes. I'm sorry, but in no way possible is a $10+ million contract justified by the occupational hazards of professional sports.

[Twobit Whore]

Originally Posted by kegkilla

i disagree. consider that a football player, or almost any professional athlete for that matter, is putting himself in considerable physical danger every time he takes the field. whenever you walk onto that field there is no guarantee that you are going to come off walking. theres been instances of people dying or becoming paralyzed or crippled with in all major sports, especially with football.

Try telling that to the last generation of players who are suffering a variety of life-degrading conditions that can't get a dime out of the NFL to help them. Mike Ditka is a champion for the cause, I'm sure you are aware of it. Players make 5-10mil and they can't give more than a few hundred a week to disabled ex-players that helped build the league into what it is.

It's all about corporate greed and today's entertainers are just playing their part.

Oh.. derail time I guess. That's enough from me.

[The Ancient]

It's not occupational hazards it's simple capitalism. People want to pay for entertainment, tons of money gets shoved into the system, those who produce the product make lots of money.

[rangoth]

I will admit I am no economics expert but the whole system seems fucked up to me too

I am a Red Sox season ticket owner, when I got the tickets they were 35$ a seat, now they are 125$(course of maybe 10ish years). I recently got a letter bragging about how they are going to improve the seats with cushions(yada yada) and in the next 3-5 years I can expect my tickets to rise by X%. Short story, in 5 years they all but promised me my tickets will be 400$ a PIECE. Going to a red sox game will then cost me 800$(I have two seats) and thats not accounting for whatever I spend as part of the day.

Now I realize I am not special and that thousands of others are in the same situation as me but shit. Can't say I don't feel a bit bitter about it and that I don't believe the constant inflation of players salaries and such doesn't affect it, or my poor attitude about the situation

I do agree with you Twobit that is coorporate greed and money flowing up, not down and it infects far more than the Baseball/sports industry. I think it just shines there most because of how insane it all is to the "common" person.

My post was a useless rant, but ohh well.

[kegkilla]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

Try telling that to the last generation of players who are suffering a variety of life-degrading conditions that can't get a dime out of the NFL to help them. Mike Ditka is a champion for the cause, I'm sure you are aware of it. Players make 5-10mil and they can't give more than a few hundred a week to disabled ex-players that helped build the league into what it is.

It's all about corporate greed and today's entertainers are just playing their part.

Oh.. derail time I guess. That's enough from me.

well yeah i agree that the older generations got completely fucked over so i'm not sure what your point is...

[Heylel Teomim]

Millie is totally right though. There are plenty of jobs out there far more dangerous than professional sports that provide a income barely above the poverty level. We're kidding ourselves by suggesting that they make money the way they do for any reason other than vanity. Athletes are our modern heroes, and in today's culture we want our heroes rich and famous and banging supermodels three at a time. People want to watch these guys excel physically, and the number of people willing to pay for a ticket to watch the event makes it big business.

There are few people on earth as overblown, overrated, and coddled as marquee professional athletes. A certain subset of trust fund babies certainly, and a few of Hollywood's more pampered elite, but in general they're kept happy and ignorant, all the while being told what a difference they're making in the world.

[rangoth]

Originally Posted by Heylel Teomim

Millie is totally right though. There are plenty of jobs out there far more dangerous than professional sports that provide a income barely above the poverty level. We're kidding ourselves by suggesting that they make money the way they do for any reason other than vanity. Athletes are our modern heroes, and in today's culture we want our heroes rich and famous and banging supermodels three at a time. People want to watch these guys excel physically, and the number of people willing to pay for a ticket to watch the event makes it big business.

There are few people on earth as overblown, overrated, and coddled as marquee professional athletes. A certain subset of trust fund babies certainly, and a few of Hollywood's more pampered elite, but in general they're kept happy and ignorant, all the while being told what a difference they're making in the world.

The sad part is though that we(society) create it, just as you said. The media gets away with chasing celeb's around taking pictures because people actualy care enough to buy the magaizines hence forcing the entire shitfest on. It's the same with sports. Everytime they raise the price people want to go watch their modern hero and the price will get paid. Especially in older parks with less seating.

We need new heroes!

[Heylel Teomim]

Should just go back to gladiatorial combat. Who needs a salary cap with a life expectancy of three years

[rangoth]

Originally Posted by Heylel Teomim

Should just go back to gladiatorial combat. Who needs a salary cap with a life expectancy of three years

....and yes I would totally pay to go see that.

<-- is sick