Wesley Snipes gets 3 years.

[prescient63]

Originally Posted by Millie

LOL, that's hilarious. After all his tax evasion, etc., and the five-year-long circus about it. Oh, well. I have no sympathy for him. IMO, when you're making tens of millions of dollars a year, not paying your taxes is kind of an insult to the rest of us.

And quite frankly, three years sounds harsh, but the penalties for white collar crime should be a lot higher than they are in this country. As things currently stand, most tax dodgers, embezzlers, securities defrauders, etc., get what amounts to a tiny slap on the wrist and a nominal fine. That sort of nonpenalty doesn't really discourage the crime in the first place. Heck, Michael Milken made something like $800 million in the '80s defrauding old folks out of their retirement savings, and he ended up having to give less than half of it away as punishment. If we're running a justice system in which you can fraudulently earn $800 mil and keep $400 mil after sentencing, the message is loud and clear: crime pays.

Until white collar crime no longer pays, we're going to keep seeing white collar crime proliferating.

You'll probably be surprised to learn this but we have some of the stiffest laws when it comes to insider trading. Most countries don't even enforce theirs. Japan has penalized someone once that I know of and he didn't spend any time in jail. He just gave the money he made form insider trading back to the company.

Edit: While I'm at it, and I know Millie went to law school so maybe she has already read a bunch of this stuff, but Posner is interesting when considering the economics of the justice system. In Posner's view the justice system is largely an economic vehicle. I will say one thing though, it isn't light reading.

[Salshun]

Originally Posted by Awanka

He should just make a prison action movie. Can film it at his location.

Uh....Undisputed (2002)

[Cathan]

Originally Posted by Millie

LOL, that's hilarious. After all his tax evasion, etc., and the five-year-long circus about it. Oh, well. I have no sympathy for him. IMO, when you're making tens of millions of dollars a year, not paying your taxes is kind of an insult to the rest of us.

And quite frankly, three years sounds harsh, but the penalties for white collar crime should be a lot higher than they are in this country. As things currently stand, most tax dodgers, embezzlers, securities defrauders, etc., get what amounts to a tiny slap on the wrist and a nominal fine. That sort of nonpenalty doesn't really discourage the crime in the first place. Heck, Michael Milken made something like $800 million in the '80s defrauding old folks out of their retirement savings, and he ended up having to give less than half of it away as punishment. If we're running a justice system in which you can fraudulently earn $800 mil and keep $400 mil after sentencing, the message is loud and clear: crime pays.

Until white collar crime no longer pays, we're going to keep seeing white collar crime proliferating.

I disagree on the jail time. Jail typically does nothing but make people more criminally oriented. They become institutionalized into a criminal laden system and are associated with that after they are released. I really think jail should be reserved at this point for primarily violent or abusive offenders. They are physical threat.

Other offenders could practically be sentenced to like a halfway house type arrangement for shit like tax evasion, fraud, etc. It's not that I don't see their crime as worthy of punishment... I just think there is a difference.

As for people that defraud old folks or evade taxes... they should be fined out the ass to where it definitely does not pay.

That guy that defrauded all those old folks out of their retirements should be the new poster boy to teach old folks how to protect themselves while he goes on tour across the nation and gives away every single dime to his name to pay fines or help repay all the people he screwed over.

I don't really see the point in our prison system the way it is though. They removed the word penitentiary from prisons because it's understood criminals aren't being reformed... If anything they're only being hardened and honed as criminals.

If I ran prisons there would be about 3 stages of prisons: The general prisons would be places of education and work that benefits society and teaches the criminals how to live an honest life. The 2nd stage would be the last year of a convict's sentence they spend it in transition back into the real world with more freedoms, going to work and classes still. The 3rd stage is for criminals that just don't get it... the supermax where it's 23 hour a day lockdown w/ an hour a day to play in some 15x15 enclosed concrete area, 0 interaction with other prisoners and straight up animal treatment like you see on those shows about how supermax prisons are now. Inmates would either be on their way to becoming productive, educated members of society or locked away where they are only dealt with by trained professionals.

[Frax]

Prisoner 57?

[Arbitrary]

He's a celebrity going to minimal security Club Fed.

Oh nos. He's going to be institutionalized. I hope he can make it on the outside when he is released.

[Eomer]

I always wonder what the fuck these idiots were thinking, and how they got into these situations in the first place. Wesley Snipes, Willie Nelson, Jaromir Jagr, Darren McCarty, Don Johnson, whoever. All these idiots who make millions and millions of dollars, and yet they either end up bankrupt or they tried to cheat on taxes or whatever.

Don't these idiots have managers and handlers and accountants to take care of this shit? I mean how do you go bankrupt or owe millions upon millions when you've made so much money to begin with? Is it because they have shitty financial advisors? Or is it because they don't listen to them or have them in the first place?

I guess every situation is different. In Snipes' case he was being downright dishonest and trying to cheat. Johnson, it just sounds like the man is an idiot. Nelson was a hippy, so no better. But someone like Jagr, who owed the IRS millions upon millions a few years ago, how the fuck do you get to that point? I don't know the mechanics of how professional athletes are paid, but wouldn't either the team or his agent be remitting taxes to the government?

[Arbitrary]

I don't understand the celebrity drunk driving either. If you are going out to party why do you not have a driver?

[Thorpe]

Originally Posted by Eomer

I always wonder what the fuck these idiots were thinking, and how they got into these situations in the first place. Wesley Snipes, Willie Nelson, Jaromir Jagr, Darren McCarty, Don Johnson, whoever. All these idiots who make millions and millions of dollars, and yet they either end up bankrupt or they tried to cheat on taxes or whatever.

Don't these idiots have managers and handlers and accountants to take care of this shit? I mean how do you go bankrupt or owe millions upon millions when you've made so much money to begin with? Is it because they have shitty financial advisors? Or is it because they don't listen to them or have them in the first place?

I guess every situation is different. In Snipes' case he was being downright dishonest and trying to cheat. Johnson, it just sounds like the man is an idiot. Nelson was a hippy, so no better. But someone like Jagr, who owed the IRS millions upon millions a few years ago, how the fuck do you get to that point? I don't know the mechanics of how professional athletes are paid, but wouldn't either the team or his agent be remitting taxes to the government?

[Arbitrary]

.

[Hatorade]

Because I am a sinical fucker I am going to go with, he has done a movie in years and needs the publicity so someone hyped the media and gave him 3 years(on paper) out in 2-4months tops. Also its Tax evasion so he will prolly be drinking some juice while watching his 52inch flat screen.

[Millie]

Originally Posted by Eomer

I always wonder what the fuck these idiots were thinking, and how they got into these situations in the first place. Wesley Snipes, Willie Nelson, Jaromir Jagr, Darren McCarty, Don Johnson, whoever. All these idiots who make millions and millions of dollars, and yet they either end up bankrupt or they tried to cheat on taxes or whatever.

Don't these idiots have managers and handlers and accountants to take care of this shit? I mean how do you go bankrupt or owe millions upon millions when you've made so much money to begin with? Is it because they have shitty financial advisors? Or is it because they don't listen to them or have them in the first place?

I guess every situation is different. In Snipes' case he was being downright dishonest and trying to cheat. Johnson, it just sounds like the man is an idiot. Nelson was a hippy, so no better. But someone like Jagr, who owed the IRS millions upon millions a few years ago, how the fuck do you get to that point? I don't know the mechanics of how professional athletes are paid, but wouldn't either the team or his agent be remitting taxes to the government?

A lot of celebrities are just not very bright people (shocking, right? ) who've basically won the lottery and have gotten caught up in the lifestyle and all of its trappings. They have practically no sense of the value of a dollar, and their spending expands to fill, and in many cases exceed, whatever income they earn.

Add to this managers who are taking 20%, agencies taking 15%, publicists and lawyers taking 5% or so apiece, and possibly accountants/money managers taking another piece. These people are only interested in celebrities insofar as those celebrities are doing well, making lots of money, and thus are good for hefty commission payments. They are self-interested parties, and their interests don't always coincide with those of the clients they manage. Keep in mind, they're also managing other clients at the same time, so if one client falls off the wayside, it's usually not a big deal.

Personally speaking, I don't think actors and athletes should make 1/100th of what they make these days. But every time I raise that point among friends, I get laughed or bitched at. People need their heroes, I guess. I, on the other hand, think it's ridiculous that someone with a sub-high-school education can make more money in a year than someone with a graduate degree makes in a lifetime.

[Zeste]

Originally Posted by Eomer

I always wonder what the fuck these idiots were thinking, ....... Or is it because they don't listen to them or have them in the first place?

My answer: these people are the same people who would be cheating taxes and living in the ghetto/trailer park if they weren't rich. They are the people you see on COPS, only they hit the fame and fortune lottery. White, black, yellow, red, it doesn't matter the race or background. They're just not very intelligent, trashy people.

[Millie]

Originally Posted by Zeste

My answer: these people are the same people who would be cheating taxes and living in the ghetto/trailer park if they weren't rich. They are the people you see on COPS, only they hit the fame and fortune lottery. White, black, yellow, red, it doesn't matter the race or background. They're just not very intelligent, trashy people.

In many cases (certainly that of the Spears sisters), sure. But not always. A lot of celebrities are genuinely decent, nice, not-very-bright people.

Basically, it helps to think of celebrities as people who've gotten extremely successful not based on their brains or (necessarily) their work ethic. They aren't necessarily trashy or bad people (though some obviously are); they're basically just lottery winners. Some of them are genuinely smart, but by and large, you don't need smarts to become a movie star.

Most of the "stars" I respect are the actually smart ones, who came up through writing. Tina Fey, Conan O'Brien, etc. Conan was a Harvard grad who wrote for SNL and The Simpsons (in its best years), and who was originally hired to be the head writer on the show he ended up hosting. His success I can appreciate. Britney Spears'? Not so much.

[The Ancient]

Originally Posted by Millie

Personally speaking, I don't think actors and athletes should make 1/100th of what they make these days. But every time I raise that point among friends, I get laughed or bitched at. People need their heroes, I guess. I, on the other hand, think it's ridiculous that someone with a sub-high-school education can make more money in a year than someone with a graduate degree makes in a lifetime.

The only way to get people to stop dumping so much money into entertainment industries is to reduce their disposable income. Good luck selling your "charge more taxes" idea.

[Millie]

Originally Posted by The Ancient

The only way to get people to stop dumping so much money into entertainment industries is to reduce their disposable income. Good luck selling your "charge more taxes" idea.

Well, if we don't raise taxes 500%, how else are we going to promote the liberal feminist agenda? :P

But seriously, it's obviously too late to put the salary genie back in the bottle. I just think the idea of paying movie stars and professional athletes millions of dollars for their "work" is ridiculous. It'll never change, though. And it's not about how much money people put into entertainment; it's about how much money entertainment puts into its stars.