Terminator 4: Abandon all Hope

[ChewieTobbacca]

Originally Posted by meStevo

The game is a prequel too, and in one trailer of it i saw Kate ask a guy 'did you make that trap?' or something similar so I think it may have some stuff from the book in it.

Too bad it's been panned as pretty horrible itself... completable in 4 hours. Coulda done a ton of cool stuff with a Terminator game (like GRAW in the terminator universe basically), but looks like they went the cheap route.

Personally an RTS on the Company of Heroes engine would be pretty fucking stellar... maybe a mod?

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I think the entire idea is that SkyNet knows what Connor is interested in and after the most and is throwing its resources at making sure this draws Connor out. SkyNet is one crafty bastard, seeing as how it planted the parts needed to locate Command's HQ and draw it and the Resistance into an ambush, only it didn't count on Marcus Wright screwing things up.

It knew hence it planed all the things there (the arnold T-800) in the hopes of ending it all in one fell swoop.

I liked the developmental aspect of seeing the T-600s in action. Man, no wonder they were all issued miniguns - those things couldnt shoot a regular weapon straight it looked like so spray and pray baby.

So now though, they've set the tone for the rest of the movies since Connor is now the leader (at least of this part of the world) of the Resistance now that Command is gone. So *hopefully* that mean's they're more wiling to develop the other characters there.

[Heylel Teomim]

Originally Posted by Shogon

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So, to be more specific... even though John currently exists, if Kyle is killed before being sent back, John will never exist on a new time line, and thus, Skynet wins in the new time line.

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Not how it works. Your version requires a change in the present to affect the future which retroactively affects the past. This isn't how Terminator time travel works. You can change the present to affect the future, as in real life. You can go back and change the past to affect the present and future. You can't change the present to affect the past.

In the timeline you describe, Kyle would die. However, that same timeline already has a fixed past, one in which an adult Kyle Reese lived and fathered John Connor. So, killing Reese the kid would not prevent him being sent back, it's already happened regardless of whether it ever actually occurs in the future. It would be easy to show this with a diagram, but I don't have time to draw one and post it. Killing kid Reese would split the timeline into two potentials, one where he lives and one where he dies. However, the split would occur downriver (so to speak) of where adult Reese fathered Connor. So, killing him post-Judgement Day won't negate John Connor's existence.

This is moot anyway. The very act of Kyle Reese having been sent back and affecting the timeline now dictates that he will survive to actually make the jump back and for events to transpire. It's a funky thing about time travel. Going back and changing an event such that a future action is required in order for the past to make temporal sense makes any timeline in which the past does not happen correctly an impossible action.

Just take the Austin Powers route. Try not to think about it too hard.

[Zhaun's_Shade]

You guys have totally destroyed my interest in seeing this now. Thanks!

[Arakkis]

Stop being dorks about this. The story can be explained without pretend quantum physics.

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The fact is, in the present timeline, John Connor is NOT a considerable threat to Skynet. All Skynet has during the time the movie takes place is intel from terminators that were sent back in time by future Skynet and waited till Judgement Day that Connor is a big threat. So with this intel, Skynet can do all sorts of things to prevent the future loss, since the war is really just beginning. This would make Skynet less desperate, and therefore less prone to kill Reece outright. Skynet doesn't even start sending terminators back to kill Sarah and John till the war is all but lost, so Skynet may not even know it is defeated by Connor.

All that said, the ending fucking sucked balls. How corny was the "take my heart/do you believe in second chances" garbage? Ugh, I don't understand how anyone thought that was a good ending to a hell of a fun movie

[ChewieTobbacca]

Originally Posted by Arakkis

Stop being dorks about this. The story can be explained without pretend quantum physics.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

The fact is, in the present timeline, John Connor is NOT a considerable threat to Skynet. All Skynet has during the time the movie takes place is intel from terminators that were sent back in time by future Skynet and waited till Judgement Day that Connor is a big threat. So with this intel, Skynet can do all sorts of things to prevent the future loss, since the war is really just beginning. This would make Skynet less desperate, and therefore less prone to kill Reece outright. Skynet doesn't even start sending terminators back to kill Sarah and John till the war is all but lost, so Skynet may not even know it is defeated by Connor.

All that said, the ending fucking sucked balls. How corny was the "take my heart/do you believe in second chances" garbage? Ugh, I don't understand how anyone thought that was a good ending to a hell of a fun movie

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Agreed, the ending was definitely cheesy to what otherwise was a fun movie

[TheCutlery]

Originally Posted by ChewieTobbacca

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Agreed, the ending was definitely cheesy to what otherwise was a fun movie

At least it was over quick, and they didn't drag that shit out for another half an hour. I can let that slide. It was a damned good movie, definitely no 42% rotten tomatoes shit.

[Snugglebear]

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The ending, WTF, I thought Marcus was going to be a continuing character... maybe they'll give him John's heart in the next movie or something. It seems like a weird tacked-on ending though. I wonder if McG's original ending (Connor being turned into a terminator so he can keep on living) got outed and so out of spite he just put the terminator's heart in John Connor.

It was a fun movie, but I really was hoping for a big man vs. terminators battle on a field or something.

[Kaio]

Originally Posted by Snugglebear

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The ending, WTF, I thought Marcus was going to be a continuing character... maybe they'll give him John's heart in the next movie or something. It seems like a weird tacked-on ending though. I wonder if McG's original ending (Connor being turned into a terminator so he can keep on living) got outed and so out of spite he just put the terminator's heart in John Connor.

It was a fun movie, but I really was hoping for a big man vs. terminators battle on a field or something.

It would be absolutely retarded if that original ending by McG you posted actually happend. This wasn't the best ending but that would be kind of ridiculous. I'm surprised by how much i enjoyed the battle scenes.

[Zhaun's_Shade]

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Wait... seriously, the movie ended on robo-Marcus giving John Connor his robo-heart? wat?

[Kaio]

Originally Posted by Zhaun's_Shade

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Wait... seriously, the movie ended on robo-Marcus giving John Connor his robo-heart? wat?

No.

Also stop trying to spoil yourself and go watch the movie. It was definately good enough to pay for and watch. Much better then most of the crap that has come out recently. This is despite the fact that I outlined the plot here before watching the movie due to me spoiling myself with all these trailers and clips.

[Malakriss]

Originally Posted by Zhaun's_Shade

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Wait... seriously, the movie ended on robo-Marcus giving John Connor his robo-heart? wat?

Not exactly... Major ending spoilers:

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Marcus still had a human heart, brain, nervous system, etc. He basically had a terminator endo-skeleton replacing all of his bones.

The ridiculousness was the sequence of events that played out for the ending.
1) Battle with Marcus/Connor vs. Arnold T-800 and neither of them can stop it.
2) Terminator identifies Marcus' human heart as a weakness and gives him a punch to the ribcage, stopping his heart
3) Connor manages to stop the terminator by pouring molten metal over it followed by shooting a gas pipe to freeze it
4) Instead of escaping, Connor decides to save Marcus by first trying to chest pound CPR him (lol metal ribcage) then using live wires to jump start his heart again
5) Terminator unfreezes, and puts a metal bar through Connor's chest
6) Marcus breaks off the part of the bar that's sticking out of his chest, shoves it through the T-800s neck, and twists it's head off.
7) Marcus carries Connor out to the helicopter, everyone evacs to safety
8) Connor is getting medical attention from his wife, but the wound was too severe and his heart can't take it.
9) Marcus who is alive and well, free from Skynet's control and able to have a second life decides "Hey, take my heart!" and volunteers to die so Connor can live.

Connor could have left Marcus there and escaped, would never have been stabbed, the mission would have been carried out, and Marcus would have died trying to save him. But instead Connor gets stabbed and the guy he saved decides to die anyways and donate his heart. The heart that Connor had to freakin' zap the life back into hours before. Maybe they wanted some random cliches about humanity, never leaving a man behind and/or self sacrifice, but it was poorly thought out. I don't think they could have killed Marcus in a stupider way to make sure he wouldn't be in 5/6.

[Pren]

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I think the 'second chance' wasn't to live a second life, but a second chance to die for a greater good. I was not able to hear most of the dialogue in the open scene of the movie because the projector fucked up and everyone was yelling, even after it got fixed, but she was telling him that if he gave his body to science that it would not be in vain and it would help humanity.

But instead it ended up leading to part of the skynet program.

Marcus' second chance for his death to mean something is allowing JC to live, which helps humanity.

[ChewieTobbacca]

Originally Posted by Malakriss

Not exactly... Major ending spoilers:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Marcus still had a human heart, brain, nervous system, etc. He basically had a terminator endo-skeleton replacing all of his bones.

The ridiculousness was the sequence of events that played out for the ending.
1) Battle with Marcus/Connor vs. Arnold T-800 and neither of them can stop it.
2) Terminator identifies Marcus' human heart as a weakness and gives him a punch to the ribcage, stopping his heart
3) Connor manages to stop the terminator by pouring molten metal over it followed by shooting a gas pipe to freeze it
4) Instead of escaping, Connor decides to save Marcus by first trying to chest pound CPR him (lol metal ribcage) then using live wires to jump start his heart again
5) Terminator unfreezes, and puts a metal bar through Connor's chest
6) Marcus breaks off the part of the bar that's sticking out of his chest, shoves it through the T-800s neck, and twists it's head off.
7) Marcus carries Connor out to the helicopter, everyone evacs to safety
8) Connor is getting medical attention from his wife, but the wound was too severe and his heart can't take it.
9) Marcus who is alive and well, free from Skynet's control and able to have a second life decides "Hey, take my heart!" and volunteers to die so Connor can live.

Connor could have left Marcus there and escaped, would never have been stabbed, the mission would have been carried out, and Marcus would have died trying to save him. But instead Connor gets stabbed and the guy he saved decides to die anyways and donate his heart. The heart that Connor had to freakin' zap the life back into hours before. Maybe they wanted some random cliches about humanity, never leaving a man behind and/or self sacrifice, but it was poorly thought out. I don't think they could have killed Marcus in a stupider way to make sure he wouldn't be in 5/6.

speaking of which

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okay this part annoyed me and its just nitpicking, but wtf man, molten metal melted T-800 and T-1000 in T2, but suddenly this one, after it gets cooled too, can still function? sorry man, but when that much molten metal is suddenly cooled, it's going to be a giant slab of metal

[Arakkis]

Originally Posted by ChewieTobbacca

speaking of which

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okay this part annoyed me and its just nitpicking, but wtf man, molten metal melted T-800 and T-1000 in T2, but suddenly this one, after it gets cooled too, can still function? sorry man, but when that much molten metal is suddenly cooled, it's going to be a giant slab of metal

Depends on the metal.

[Tramddark Luxdeorum]

It was also a prototype, which is probably far more durable than production models.