Ben Stein Expelled

[Asmadai]

Semantics is a stupid game.

[Bizanich]

/derail attempt

Do you have to believe in God and / or his teachings or you go to hell?

If so, what about all those people who existed prior to Judaism or Christianity? Hell?

Or, if it's a special circumstance and Hell only existed after the religions came into being, what about those poor bastards in like deep South America / Africa / South East Asian Islanders who never find out about these great religions?

Hell?

Honest question, <3 this thread.

[Xakk]

Originally Posted by Bizanich

/derail attempt

Do you have to believe in God and / or his teachings or you go to hell?

If so, what about all those people who existed prior to Judaism or Christianity? Hell?

Or, if it's a special circumstance and Hell only existed after the religions came into being, what about those poor bastards in like deep South America / Africa / South East Asian Islanders who never find out about these great religions?

Hell?

Honest question, <3 this thread.

Jesus died for them.

[Bizanich]

Originally Posted by Xakk

Jesus died for them.

Thanks, like I said, I was genuinely curious about how that little tidbit was explained. So, afterwards, you have to basically find the religions no matter what.

[Chrisb3]

We should do a test to see who is right.

Take two people and put them in the middle of a city, the religious guy can only use religion to survive and is denied acsess to science, the science guy can only use science and is denied acsess to religion.

A bit unfair as the religious guy has the full powers of God behind him, and the science guy will probally just lead a normal life. I wonder what mana tastes like?

[Arbitrary]

The question is only a sticky wicket for someone who will make the claim that the only way into Heaven is to be baptized and to accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior.

Really? Every atheist, agnostic, jew, buddhist, witch, hindu, shinto, muslim, scientologist, and everyone still living in a tribal society is going to hell regardless of the amount of good they do?

Those that answer yes to that question are the dangerous ones.

[Bizanich]

Originally Posted by Arbitrary

The question is only a sticky wicket for someone who will make the claim that the only way into Heaven is to be baptized and to accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior.

Really? Every atheist, agnostic, jew, buddhist, witch, hindu, shinto, muslim, scientologist, and everyone still living in a tribal society is going to hell regardless of the amount of good they do?

Those that answer yes to that question are the dangerous ones.

I was always under the impression that's what Christianity was, honestly. That's why they had missionaries. If you didn't need to believe and accept Jesus Christ, why have missionaries, right? Just have people be good.

I was never indoctrinated as a young child and my being born handicapped/crippled/disabled murdered the majority of my family's belief, I believe. That's why I always find threads like this as great reads. I find it fascinating, if disturbing in some ways, too.

[Arakkis]

Originally Posted by Arbitrary

The question is only a sticky wicket for someone who will make the claim that the only way into Heaven is to be baptized and to accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior.

Really? Every atheist, agnostic, jew, buddhist, witch, hindu, shinto, muslim, scientologist, and everyone still living in a tribal society is going to hell regardless of the amount of good they do?

Those that answer yes to that question are the dangerous ones.

Christianity doesn't leave much wiggle room.

Jesus says in John 14:6, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me."

[Arbitrary]

No, people with strict literal interpretations don't leave much wiggle room.

I would claim that the person who acts as Jesus would act is indeed following him.

If you are out there feeding the hungry, giving drink to the thirsty, clothing the naked, instructing the ignorant, and visiting the imprisoned your actions go well beyond those that show up once a week to Church, confess, say the correct words, and move on with their selfish and self-centered lives.

[Agraza]

The whole point of religion is just to establish haves and have nots like any other social group. We have salvation, you don't. You have to be accepted by us, under our rules, to have salvation. It is nothing more than that. Attaching any more significance just enables religions to elevate their bullshit to a higher level.

[Xakk]

Originally Posted by Bizanich

Thanks, like I said, I was genuinely curious about how that little tidbit was explained. So, afterwards, you have to basically find the religions no matter what.

Well the followers are suppose to spread the word of their religion to every corner of the world. Still, it's tricky.

The problem is before even leaving to spread the word of God which sect which sect will you pick?

[Schatze]

Satellite interferometers, inter-planetary probes, the computer you're typing on, the microwave you use, the car you drive, the medicine that keeps you alive, etc. etc.

There's a big difference between not believing in religion and not accepting that science is the route to our best understanding of the universe. Comparing "shitting" on one and "shitting" on the other is absolutely asinine.

An exchange I had in my much younger days with a Mormon girl, where she was expressing doubts about evolution etc., I chimed in "Yeah, I have trouble believing in that microwave too." A snarky, simple off the cuff response, but I think that encapsulates a lot of the "debate". Science has shown us the beef, has given us wonders and a lifestyle beyond the dreams of even some of those who were born long ago but still alive today.

When religion manages to do the same, perhaps I'll take a second look at it. But all I see in religion is otherwise good and tolerant people being good and tolerant, or assholes who probably would have been assholes anyways conveniently using their religion as a bludgeon. I do suspect some people are made into assholes by their religious education and their literal holier than thou attitude, but I'll give religion the benefit of the doubt and assume they would have been assholes anyways.

[Asmadai]

Originally Posted by Chrisb3

We should do a test to see who is right.

Take two people and put them in the middle of a city, the religious guy can only use religion to survive and is denied acsess to science, the science guy can only use science and is denied acsess to religion.

A bit unfair as the religious guy has the full powers of God behind him, and the science guy will probally just lead a normal life. I wonder what mana tastes like?

You are a moron.

Do you honestly believe people with a religion entirely shun the scientific community and all of it's achievements as if it's some anti-thesis to what we believe?

Science may not share some of the answers we have for certain questions about existance and life, but that doesn't mean we don't believe any of it altogether, and to think so is entirely juvenile. It's this one sided view of the opposing side which makes having conversations on this topic all the more innane. What do you think our answer for gravity is? God did it?

I'm sorry, I hate to disappoint, but not all people with a religion are Amish.

[Smocca]

Originally Posted by Asmadai

You are a moron.

Do you honestly believe people with a religion entirely shun the scientific community and all of it's achievements as if it's some anti-thesis to what we believe?

Science may not share some of the answers we have for certain questions about existance and life, but that doesn't mean we don't believe any of it altogether, and to think so is entirely juvenile. It's this one sided view of the opposing side which makes having conversations on this topic all the more innane. What do you think our answer for gravity is? God did it?

I'm sorry, I hate to disappoint, but not all people with a religion are Amish.

No its the fact that you pick and choose which aspects of science are okay and which are not. Science that gets you a larger hard drive for your ipod? Fuck yea. Science that challenges your zeal toward your chosen religion? Blasphemy.

Its fucking retarded too btw because the religious before everyone else should be embracing science. God made everything right? And you want to know god as well as possible right? Well then wouldn't you want to objectively study his universe, so that you could better understand the mind of god? No that would actually involve critical thinking and would ruin the whole idea of using religion as a shortcut to moral superiority.

[Eomer]

Science may not share some of the answers we have for certain questions about existance and life, but that doesn't mean we don't believe any of it altogether, and to think so is entirely juvenile.

I agree. But it's also pretty silly to pick and choose what aspects of science you'll accept, and then discard ones that don't agree with your worldview simply because some book or priest or whatever tells you to.

What do you think our answer for gravity is? God did it?

If the Bible made a big deal about some parable on how gravity works and the end result of the parable was the "god did it", then yes I do think that fundies would take issue with Newton, Einstein, and anyone else that tried to explain gravity in a scientific way instead of just accepting the scientific explanation.

But the Bible doesn't much care about gravity, and neither do fundies, so there's no conflict.