Ben Stein Expelled

[Camerous]

Might want to reread the bible. Matthew 18:15-18 "Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." Which means; "What ever you hold to be true on earth will be held true in heaven."

[Indiana]

Yeah

[Lefazz]

Originally Posted by Indiana

Yeah

What kind of creator would give his creation the capacity for understanding and reasoning and then expect them not to use it?

[dechire]

Originally Posted by Lefazz

What kind of creator would give his creation the capacity for understanding and reasoning and then expect them not to use it?

a sick and malicious one.

[Indiana]

Originally Posted by dechire

a sick and malicious one.

No, he just works in mysterious ways - Like /b tards.

[Asmadai]

I prefer the finite answers an organized religion can bring. Sure, there are some answers that are infinite, but mostly they are all finite. There is an explanation for everything somewhere, albeit the explanations may not be exactly what you want to hear.

I dislike the infinite answers though I find from everyone else. My roomate and I were discussing extraterrestial life or whatever - I said there is none, he says there is. I point out that we've been looking in the surrounding area of our planet, and have yet to find anything. His response: 'Oh, they are there, just further out.'

That, is what I call an infinite answer. What happens when we search even further for life outside of our planet and find nothing? "Oh well, they are just further out that's all." I'll continue to hear that same response forever. Now, if it turns out we do find some life I'll be eating my shoe...but until then I'm sitting on this side of the fence.

It just seems those who can't put beliefs in a dogma of sorts are just too 'could be' for my tastes. You ask an agnostic a question about this topic, you are met with a 'well yeah that could be the answer, but then again it might not be', almost as if there is a fear of committing to what could be true. With their stance, if something they claimed 'could be how it happened' turns out to be false, they can simply take the stance of 'well I said it could be, or might not be - I wasn't wrong', thus negating them from being wrong. Maybe it's just like that to me, but it just seems this constant searching for the answer rather than believing a given answer is just the equivalent to a horse chasing after a carrot on a stick.

[Arbitrary]

It isn't about the destination, it is about the journey. I don't want to be given anything. I want to come to my own conclusions based on my study and experience.

I've accidently almost acquired (5 credits to go~) a degree in philosophy while pursing a different major and seeing how the best minds throughout history have tackled humanities toughest problems has put me in an infinitely better position than I would be at if I had just picked randomchristianreligion01.

That is my fundamental problem with organized religion. It really doesn't care what I think.

[Asmadai]

Well there is still a journey in organized religion to a degree. Like most have said, the answer to most of the questions in Christianity can be easily summed up as 'God did it', but that doesn't mean the buck necessarily stops there.

I still like to think at times WHY 'God did it'. Sure, we are given the answers to most of life's harder questions, but there is still plenty to think about, especially if you aren't a die-hard fanatic of the dogma and can think outside a bit. Take the Christian Apocrypha for example - that shit has me thinking all the damn time. The newly translated story of Judas, which states that Christ specifically pulled him aside, told him "Listen, life sucks ass, but you gotta be the guy to betray me - it's your job" fits more than the story we were given in my opinion, though the majority may not believe it to be true.

The Book of Enoch explaining how mankind learned warfare, the ability to forge metals, vanity, etc just fits for me. It's not in the Bible, but that doesn't negate the possible truth in it all - it was left out of the Bible for reasons other than 'it's bullshit'.

Sure, most believers in Christianity will take the Bible and follow it word for word without doing any free-thinking on their own, but they aren't the only types of Christians out there. We may not think of alternative possibilities for already given answers, but we still think deeply on the vague answers we have been given. It's not all sheepish thought.

[Chrisb3]

Originally Posted by Asmadai

I prefer the finite answers an organized religion can bring. Sure, there are some answers that are infinite, but mostly they are all finite. There is an explanation for everything somewhere, albeit the explanations may not be exactly what you want to hear.

I dislike the infinite answers though I find from everyone else. My roomate and I were discussing extraterrestial life or whatever - I said there is none, he says there is. I point out that we've been looking in the surrounding area of our planet, and have yet to find anything. His response: 'Oh, they are there, just further out.'

That, is what I call an infinite answer. What happens when we search even further for life outside of our planet and find nothing? "Oh well, they are just further out that's all." I'll continue to hear that same response forever. Now, if it turns out we do find some life I'll be eating my shoe...but until then I'm sitting on this side of the fence.

It just seems those who can't put beliefs in a dogma of sorts are just too 'could be' for my tastes. You ask an agnostic a question about this topic, you are met with a 'well yeah that could be the answer, but then again it might not be', almost as if there is a fear of committing to what could be true. With their stance, if something they claimed 'could be how it happened' turns out to be false, they can simply take the stance of 'well I said it could be, or might not be - I wasn't wrong', thus negating them from being wrong. Maybe it's just like that to me, but it just seems this constant searching for the answer rather than believing a given answer is just the equivalent to a horse chasing after a carrot on a stick.

It's not "Oh there could be Aliens lol!", it's "We looked at the evidence suggesting that planets are quite common around stars and then thought about how many stars there are. We then looked at the varied lifeforms on this planet that live in all kinda weird hostile places and concluded this: There must be alien life somewhere, there are just too many places for it to happen in for it not to."

There is a perfectly good argument for it, it isn't just random 'could be''s.

If the horse didn't chase the carrot we wouldn't be having this discussion, no religion says anything about instant intercontinental communication.
One day the speculation and theories about the possibility of Aliens (amoung other things) will get us living on other planets.

[The Edge]

Originally Posted by Camerous

Might want to reread the bible. Matthew 18:15-18 "Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." Which means; "What ever you hold to be true on earth will be held true in heaven."

I'm not sure what your intention was behind this post, but people would be wise to key in on that last sentence. It has another meaning that most haven't considered.

[Chrisb3]

Originally Posted by Asmadai

Well there is still a journey in organized religion to a degree. Like most have said, the answer to most of the questions in Christianity can be easily summed up as 'God did it', but that doesn't mean the buck necessarily stops there.

I still like to think at times WHY 'God did it'. Sure, we are given the answers to most of life's harder questions, but there is still plenty to think about, especially if you aren't a die-hard fanatic of the dogma and can think outside a bit. Take the Christian Apocrypha for example - that shit has me thinking all the damn time. The newly translated story of Judas, which states that Christ specifically pulled him aside, told him "Listen, life sucks ass, but you gotta be the guy to betray me - it's your job" fits more than the story we were given in my opinion, though the majority may not believe it to be true.

The Book of Enoch explaining how mankind learned warfare, the ability to forge metals, vanity, etc just fits for me. It's not in the Bible, but that doesn't negate the possible truth in it all - it was left out of the Bible for reasons other than 'it's bullshit'.

Sure, most believers in Christianity will take the Bible and follow it word for word without doing any free-thinking on their own, but they aren't the only types of Christians out there. We may not think of alternative possibilities for already given answers, but we still think deeply on the vague answers we have been given. It's not all sheepish thought.

I can't help thinking Star Trek, that is also a totally made up story with lots of moral dilemmas and lessons to learn.
Saw an episode yesterday where a planet had lost it's ozone layer and the sterile radiation poisoned population stole the Enterprises children. Those kids banded together and did non violent passive resistance, while Picard learned the pain of a parent missing it's children. Riker was a douchebag. That shit has me thinking all the time.

[Grumath]

Back on the subject of the movie... Many may have heard this side-story already, but for those who haven't, check out this link.

Basically PZ Myers, one of the scientists interviewed for Expelled to depict "the other side", was invited and then expelled from a screening of the film. He was not causing a disturbance, nor did he have any intent to do so. For a movie supposedly about fairness and acceptance of different lines of thought, the irony is quite delicious.

[Camerous]

Originally Posted by The Edge

I'm not sure what your intention was behind this post, but people would be wise to key in on that last sentence. It has another meaning that most haven't considered.

Originally Posted by Millie

That's all well and good (no pun intended), but the Christian definition of God is pretty clear about defining "good" and attributing infinite quantities of that "goodness" to God. God is described as all-loving and of infinite compassion, and yet, seems to have quite a few finite restrictions placed on that infinite compassion. For one thing, a rich man will have as easy a time getting into heaven as a camel will have of passing through the eye of a needle. For another, anyone who does not accept Christ as savior -- including those who've never even heard of Christ, and thus were shit out of luck -- will suffer eternal punishment. Beyond that, Jesus goes on and on -- at great length -- in several of the gospels to describe just how exclusive a club the "Kingdom of Heaven" will be. It seems most of us won't be making the cut.

Hmmm. I'm not sure how you choose to define love and compassion and goodness. But the idea of someone's suffering eternal and inescapable torment simply for being rationally skeptical of a sketchy, self-proclaimed prophet from 2000 years ago doesn't seem to fall in line with infinite love, compassion, or forgivenes in my opinion. Nor does the idea of someone's having been born and died without knowing about Christianity, then suffering eternal hellfire for his or her bad luck, seem consistent with any definition of love, let alone boundless love, on the part of God.

My post was a rebuttal of over 1/2 of what Millie says through out this post.

[Indiana]

Originally Posted by Grumath

Back on the subject of the movie... Many may have heard this side-story already, but for those who haven't, check out this link.

Basically PZ Myers, one of the scientists interviewed for Expelled to depict "the other side", was invited and then expelled from a screening of the film. He was not causing a disturbance, nor did he have any intent to do so. For a movie supposedly about fairness and acceptance of different lines of thought, the irony is quite delicious.

That was a fantastic link, thank you.

[Kaio]

Originally Posted by Asmadai

I prefer the finite answers an organized religion can bring. Sure, there are some answers that are infinite, but mostly they are all finite. There is an explanation for everything somewhere, albeit the explanations may not be exactly what you want to hear.

I too prefer finite answers, having too many unknowns and possibilities is sometimes scary. Unfortunately, I realized that the universe doesn't care about what I like and just because an answer is more palatable to my psyche doesn't mean it's more real ><. Theres enough in life to enjoy it and in the end not being limited by one religion's dogma frees you more then it might scare you (at least in my case).