Ben Stein Expelled

[Malakriss]

We consume food and liquid through the same hole we breath from. Our primary waste extraction holes double for procreation. Men have nipples. Women have periods every month. If our bodies ran up to 10 degrees cooler, we could live twice as long. Money doesn't actually grow on trees....

You call THAT intelligently designed?

[Leadsalad]

Yes, because then these religious nutjobs die that much quicker.

[Regime]

Originally Posted by Mazim

I think its funny that a lot of scientist put religion off as some make believe story, and think the people who believe in this stuff are wacky, however the latest advances of science are little better. 10-30 dimensions, material you can't detect in any way, time travel, worm holes, multiple yous, ect, ect, ect.

P.S. I am not religious.

hahahaha sure you aren't

[Snugglebear]

Why didn't God make the Jews write the Bible in an alphabet consisting of four DNA base pairs? It was good enough for writing us, WTF.

[Kaio]

Originally Posted by Leadsalad

Yes, because then these religious nutjobs die that much quicker.

But only after they multiply with numerous offspring.

[Millie]

Originally Posted by Pinchandroll

I would say that knowing something bad is going to happen should not keep you from grieving when that thing occurs. If I knew that I would one day have a son and he'd grow up to be a drug addict or something, I would try my hardest to keep that from happening, but when it eventually does happen, I would probably feel regretful. It wouldn't necessarily mean that I'm surprised, since I knew it was coming, but that wouldn't stop me from grieving.

But the difference between you and God is that God supposedly does have the power to stop the bad thing from happening in this case. So either a) God is not powerful enough to stop it from happening, or b) he IS powerful enough to stop it, but chooses not to. In case "a," he's not omnipotent. In case "b," he's not omnibenevolent. A truly all-powerful being can do anything, and a truly all-loving being will do everything in his (infinite) power to prevent suffering and grief. Ergo, the existence of suffering and grief signals either a lack of omnipotence or a lack of omnibenevolence, or both, in "God."

If God does exist, he is not both all-powerful and all-good. To be all-powerful and all-good is to be in fundamental contradiction with the course of reality as it's played out so far, not to mention in fundamental contradiction with the events depicted in the Bible.

[Mimirswell]

Millie = Epicurus

[Lucifar]

I wonder what the relative birthrates are for the irrational religious vs the atheist/spiritual religious.

The rest of the developed world have populations who are generally educating themselves out of irrational belief at a faster rate than the irrational breeding advantage. I'm not so sure if that is the case in the US?

[Millie]

Originally Posted by Lucifar

I wonder what the relative birthrates are for the irrational religious vs the atheist/spiritual religious.

The rest of the developed world have populations who are generally educating themselves out of irrational belief at a faster rate than the irrational breeding advantage. I'm not so sure if that is the case in the US?

Birthrates in the US among the extremely religious are high for a variety of reasons:

1) Studies have shown that, the poorer you are (i.e., the lower your socioeconomic status), the more children you're likely to have, and the more religious you're likely to be. In this case, religion and birth rate are not directly related, but they are indirectly tied together by a few common variables (socioeconomic status, level of education).

2) Many religions condemn, or at least heavily discourage, birth control.

Combine these two phenomena, and it's pretty easy to see why the religious are outbreeding the nonreligious.

[Lucifar]

So if ID gets passed off as actually being scientific and rational in schools, then education will no longer be in action to counter the effect. The country will eventually turn into a Theocracy.
As much as you wanna harp on about separation of church and state.. once 80% of the population is strongly religious, religion will become law. And we have a second Iran. Only with actual military power.

Not a pleasant thought for the rest of the world.

[The Edge]

Originally Posted by Malakriss

We consume food and liquid through the same hole we breath from. Our primary waste extraction holes double for procreation.

You call THAT intelligently designed?

Seems pretty ingenious to me. And efficient use of space!

[The Edge]

Originally Posted by Millie

But the difference between you and God is that God supposedly does have the power to stop the bad thing from happening in this case. So either a) God is not powerful enough to stop it from happening, or b) he IS powerful enough to stop it, but chooses not to. In case "a," he's not omnipotent. In case "b," he's not omnibenevolent. A truly all-powerful being can do anything, and a truly all-loving being will do everything in his (infinite) power to prevent suffering and grief. Ergo, the existence of suffering and grief signals either a lack of omnipotence or a lack of omnibenevolence, or both, in "God."

If God does exist, he is not both all-powerful and all-good. To be all-powerful and all-good is to be in fundamental contradiction with the course of reality as it's played out so far, not to mention in fundamental contradiction with the events depicted in the Bible.

What's good or bad is purely subjective and in reality does not even exist. God would have to be neither good nor bad, just be. It's our perspective that determines if something is good or bad. From the outside looking in, everything just is.

(keep in mind I'm not defending the God of the bible, that junk got h4Xx3d)

[Millie]

Originally Posted by The Edge

What's good or bad is purely subjective and in reality does not even exist. God would have to be neither good nor bad, just be. It's our perspective that determines if something is good or bad. From the outside looking in, everything just is.

(keep in mind I'm not defending the God of the bible, that junk got h4Xx3d)

That's all well and good (no pun intended), but the Christian definition of God is pretty clear about defining "good" and attributing infinite quantities of that "goodness" to God. God is described as all-loving and of infinite compassion, and yet, seems to have quite a few finite restrictions placed on that infinite compassion. For one thing, a rich man will have as easy a time getting into heaven as a camel will have of passing through the eye of a needle. For another, anyone who does not accept Christ as savior -- including those who've never even heard of Christ, and thus were shit out of luck -- will suffer eternal punishment. Beyond that, Jesus goes on and on -- at great length -- in several of the gospels to describe just how exclusive a club the "Kingdom of Heaven" will be. It seems most of us won't be making the cut.

Hmmm. I'm not sure how you choose to define love and compassion and goodness. But the idea of someone's suffering eternal and inescapable torment simply for being rationally skeptical of a sketchy, self-proclaimed prophet from 2000 years ago doesn't seem to fall in line with infinite love, compassion, or forgivenes in my opinion. Nor does the idea of someone's having been born and died without knowing about Christianity, then suffering eternal hellfire for his or her bad luck, seem consistent with any definition of love, let alone boundless love, on the part of God.

Throughout both the Old and New Testaments, God acts more like an angry teenager who's been given infinite powers than he does an all-knowing, all-loving being.

(keep in mind I'm not defending the God of the bible, that junk got h4Xx3d)

You slipped this in as I was typing the paragraphs above. :\ Ugh.

[The Edge]

Originally Posted by Millie

That's all well and good (no pun intended), but the Christian definition of God is pretty clear about defining "good" and attributing infinite quantities of that "goodness" to God. God is described as all-loving and of infinite compassion, and yet, seems to have quite a few finite restrictions placed on that infinite compassion. For one thing, a rich man will have as easy a time getting into heaven as a camel will have of passing through the eye of a needle. For another, anyone who does not accept Christ as savior -- including those who've never even heard of Christ, and thus were shit out of luck -- will suffer eternal punishment. Beyond that, Jesus goes on and on -- at great length -- in several of the gospels to describe just how exclusive a club the "Kingdom of Heaven" will be. It seems most of us won't be making the cut.

Hmmm. I'm not sure how you choose to define love and compassion and goodness. But the idea of someone's suffering eternal and inescapable torment simply for being rationally skeptical of a sketchy, self-proclaimed prophet from 2000 years ago doesn't seem to fall in line with infinite love, compassion, or forgivenes in my opinion. Nor does the idea of someone's having been born and died without knowing about Christianity, then suffering eternal hellfire for his or her bad luck, seem consistent with any definition of love, let alone boundless love, on the part of God.

Throughout both the Old and New Testaments, God acts more like an angry teenager who's been given infinite powers than he does an all-knowing, all-loving being.



You slipped this in as I was typing the paragraphs above. :\ Ugh.

I agree.

Was commenting more on a 'better' concept of god. No defending the absurdities in that book.

[Kaio]

The reason I can't be fully atheist is that there might be a being or beings that are way beyond our comprehension. This entire universe might some kind of pet project of such an incomprehensible being among numerous other possibilities.

Why does matter exist at all and does there even need to be a reason for it to exist just to exist. Are all of you people even real!?!??!

Hrm, i should go back to my studying.