HD DVD PLAYER

Cathan · 04-02-2007, 10:38 AM

I rolled over to circuit city over the weekend and checked out the bluray and hd dvd players. I knew bluray required its own player and bluray movies. I thought hd dvd players required hd movies but would also play regular dvds as well. I talked to the clerk there who showed me an hd player that is an "upconverter" or some such. I think I just ended up confused in the end. Does the upconverter make my old movies look significantly better than they do currently? and if so is it worth the money (they had one in the store for 150$, an onkyo that he highly recommended). Is there a difference between an hd dvd player or the hd dvd upconverter or are they the same thing? Some clarification on the subject would be appreciated if anyone knows. thank you,

Cathan

Soriak · 04-02-2007, 10:49 AM

Upconverting DVDs to look like HD-DVDs? That doesn't work...

I wouldn't spend money on anything related to DVDs - if you need better quality, get a BR-DVD drive. Also, stay away from HD-DVD, it's bound to lose this battle. If we say consoles win based on the game library, then surely a movie format has to win based on the content available on it. Right now it seems to be porn & disney (I never thought I'd lump them in the same group in a comparison) vs everything else. And the porn industry isn't contractually stuck with HD-DVD, so they'll just jump ship when BR-DVD wins. Obviously with the sales of the PS3 there are now way more BR-DVD players than HD-DVD.

Vorph · 04-02-2007, 11:34 AM

I agree with Soriak. Unless you have a 360 and want to get into HD for cheap, go Blu-ray. It's the superior format and with any luck HD-DVD will lose sooner rather than later because as long as it's still around we have retarded ideas like "TotalHD" to look forward to.

Nagaetti · 04-02-2007, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathan

(they had one in the store for 150$, an onkyo that he highly recommended)

Onkyo doesn't have an HD DVD player yet. What he showed you was an upscaling dvd player.

Zeste · 04-02-2007, 12:12 PM

I wouldn't get either for a long time. The selection of movies is bullshit. The only thing I'd consider right now is a PS3, at least you can play some games and watch bluray on it.

right now, the whole "HD" craze is mostly hype. every fucking day there's some new annoucment or technology improvement that gives you .0001% increase in HDNESS!!! Fuck that.

I have a 32" westinghouse LCD hdtv I got for 1100 bucks, I play xbox360 on it and use the 360 for my movies. It looks fine, and I have a dolby digital system I got for 300 bucks, and it sounds great. The same TV sells for like $750 today.

I really don't see the need to be on the bleeding edge of this shit. It reminds me of when I spent like 150 dollars on a 33.6k modem, because my 28.8 JUST WASNT FAST ENOUGH.

Frankly, if you like movies and have some cash, I'd get a regular DVD player (or an xbox360), a dolby digital system for like $350, and a motherfucking projector that'll do standard and widescreen and go up to 720p.

Sure, in a few years I'll have all the hot shit for my movies, but right now, I don't need to buy in to all the hype of blu-ray and 1080p and dolby TRUE-HD just to watch a fucking 20 year old movie like the Abyss, which I watched this weekend.

At least, I think it was the Abyss.

Vorph · 04-02-2007, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nagaetti

Onkyo doesn't have an HD DVD player yet. What he showed you was an upscaling dvd player.

And if that's what you want, Oppo is the only way to go. Preferably the one (DV981HD or DV971 if you can find one somewhere and don't mind it lacking HDMI) with the Faroudja DCDi chip in it, I still haven't seen a good review of the new model (DV970HD) with a different scaler.

Lyenae · 04-02-2007, 12:52 PM

Somewhere between the source, and your TV's panel, almost all images have to be scaled/deinterlaced. This is done by chips called scalers.

Your TV has a Scaler chip. It takes images that do not match your panels specified resolution, and scales it to fit. This means either removing information (a source with higher resolution then your panel), or using algorithms to create information (a source with lower resolution with your panel.) If you have a 1080p TV, any material that ISN't 1080p needs to be scaled.

Now, you may think scaling isn't that hard or a big deal, but it is. The first few batches of HDTV's (and most low end HD tvs) have SHITTY scalers. They take lower resolution content and do the minimum work necessary to scale up. Some just double up pixels, it's that bad. Without an upconverting DVD player, some LCD's look like utter shit when playing a DVD.

If your TV has a shitty scaler, it's not the end fo the world. You can either scale it at the TV, or at the source (or anywhere inbetween). This is the role of an 'upconverting' DVD player. Upconverting players feature higher quality scalers that do a better job (much better algorithms) at taking lower resolution material, and making them look better on a flat panel. In essence, an upconverting DVD player uses advanced algorithms to smoothen edges, reduce noise, etc... to convert a 480p image to 720p/1080i. While it will not take a 480p DVD and make it look like a 720p HD-DVD/bluray, it will make it look better. To most people, quite acceptable.

Most HD-DVD/Bluray players feature built in upconversion. You can play 480p DVD's on them and they upconvert it to look good on high def panels.

Some of them actually feature phenomenal scalers... The Toshiba XA2 features the Silicon Optix Reon chip, which is considered a top of the line scaler, it even meets or bests $2k dedicated external scalers.

Vorph · 04-02-2007, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyenae

Some of them actually feature phenomenal scalers... The Toshiba XA2 features the Silicon Optix Reon chip, which is considered a top of the line scaler, it even meets or bests $2k dedicated external scalers.

The Samsung BD-P1200 Blu-ray player uses that scaler too, but it didn't get released in March as planned. Not sure what the new date is. Not sure how many people would buy a $800 player when they could get a $600 PS3 instead though, I kind of doubt most people would even notice the difference in scalers unless someone pointed it out to them.

Lyenae · 04-02-2007, 01:43 PM

The people who'd benefit the most are those with older, budget 1080i LCD's. A lot of people come into the HD market via these types of TV's.

Soriak · 04-02-2007, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyenae

The people who'd benefit the most are those with older, budget 1080i LCD's. A lot of people come into the HD market via these types of TV's.

In which case that scaler would cost more than the TV

Lyenae · 04-02-2007, 03:23 PM

Some people will pay for quality upconversion, it really depends on how many DVD's you watch, and how much value you place in visual quality.

If you rent and occasional DVD, then it's not really that necessary. You can get by with a $30 Walmart player, just use component cables.

But to someone who has been building a DVD library for 5 years and want to make sure they are getting the most out of that investment, they can and do buy good upconverting players. The high end Denon upconverting DVD player sells for $650. You can get as good if not better performance from a Toshiba XA2, AND be able to play an HD format in a war that might not end for 2 years, for under $600.

Ultimately it depends on how much value you place in your entertainment.

04-02-2007, 10:38 AM	#1 (permalink)
Cathan Pope of the Cathan Throng! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: N.C. yes we're all inbred rednecks Posts: 949	HD DVD PLAYER I rolled over to circuit city over the weekend and checked out the bluray and hd dvd players. I knew bluray required its own player and bluray movies. I thought hd dvd players required hd movies but would also play regular dvds as well. I talked to the clerk there who showed me an hd player that is an "upconverter" or some such. I think I just ended up confused in the end. Does the upconverter make my old movies look significantly better than they do currently? and if so is it worth the money (they had one in the store for 150$, an onkyo that he highly recommended). Is there a difference between an hd dvd player or the hd dvd upconverter or are they the same thing? Some clarification on the subject would be appreciated if anyone knows. thank you, Cathan __________________ In response to the brilliant idea of paying a crackwhore to tattoo FOHSS on her tits... Quote: Originally Posted by twiztid_420 i have access to a tat gun and some crackheads as i live relatively close to the "ghetto" it aint much here but there definantly is an abundance of crackheads, lol @ donating the money, i was gonna do that idea for a digi cam and anyone who donates get there name on the titties, a truly personalised pic.lol

04-02-2007, 11:34 AM	#3 (permalink)
Vorph Never Go Full Retard Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hell Posts: 5,342	I agree with Soriak. Unless you have a 360 and want to get into HD for cheap, go Blu-ray. It's the superior format and with any luck HD-DVD will lose sooner rather than later because as long as it's still around we have retarded ideas like "TotalHD" to look forward to. __________________

04-02-2007, 12:12 PM	#5 (permalink)
Zeste Ben's Secret Assassins - HIPPITY HOP RABBIT Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 2,791 +24 Internets	I wouldn't get either for a long time. The selection of movies is bullshit. The only thing I'd consider right now is a PS3, at least you can play some games and watch bluray on it. right now, the whole "HD" craze is mostly hype. every fucking day there's some new annoucment or technology improvement that gives you .0001% increase in HDNESS!!! Fuck that. I have a 32" westinghouse LCD hdtv I got for 1100 bucks, I play xbox360 on it and use the 360 for my movies. It looks fine, and I have a dolby digital system I got for 300 bucks, and it sounds great. The same TV sells for like $750 today. I really don't see the need to be on the bleeding edge of this shit. It reminds me of when I spent like 150 dollars on a 33.6k modem, because my 28.8 JUST WASNT FAST ENOUGH. Frankly, if you like movies and have some cash, I'd get a regular DVD player (or an xbox360), a dolby digital system for like $350, and a motherfucking projector that'll do standard and widescreen and go up to 720p. Sure, in a few years I'll have all the hot shit for my movies, but right now, I don't need to buy in to all the hype of blu-ray and 1080p and dolby TRUE-HD just to watch a fucking 20 year old movie like the Abyss, which I watched this weekend. At least, I think it was the Abyss. Last edited by Zeste : 04-02-2007 at 12:15 PM.

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04-02-2007, 10:49 AM	#2 (permalink)
Soriak Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Switzerland Posts: 4,325 +15 Internets	Upconverting DVDs to look like HD-DVDs? That doesn't work... I wouldn't spend money on anything related to DVDs - if you need better quality, get a BR-DVD drive. Also, stay away from HD-DVD, it's bound to lose this battle. If we say consoles win based on the game library, then surely a movie format has to win based on the content available on it. Right now it seems to be porn & disney (I never thought I'd lump them in the same group in a comparison) vs everything else. And the porn industry isn't contractually stuck with HD-DVD, so they'll just jump ship when BR-DVD wins. Obviously with the sales of the PS3 there are now way more BR-DVD players than HD-DVD.

04-02-2007, 12:52 PM	#7 (permalink)
Lyenae Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,912 -9 Internets	Somewhere between the source, and your TV's panel, almost all images have to be scaled/deinterlaced. This is done by chips called scalers. Your TV has a Scaler chip. It takes images that do not match your panels specified resolution, and scales it to fit. This means either removing information (a source with higher resolution then your panel), or using algorithms to create information (a source with lower resolution with your panel.) If you have a 1080p TV, any material that ISN't 1080p needs to be scaled. Now, you may think scaling isn't that hard or a big deal, but it is. The first few batches of HDTV's (and most low end HD tvs) have SHITTY scalers. They take lower resolution content and do the minimum work necessary to scale up. Some just double up pixels, it's that bad. Without an upconverting DVD player, some LCD's look like utter shit when playing a DVD. If your TV has a shitty scaler, it's not the end fo the world. You can either scale it at the TV, or at the source (or anywhere inbetween). This is the role of an 'upconverting' DVD player. Upconverting players feature higher quality scalers that do a better job (much better algorithms) at taking lower resolution material, and making them look better on a flat panel. In essence, an upconverting DVD player uses advanced algorithms to smoothen edges, reduce noise, etc... to convert a 480p image to 720p/1080i. While it will not take a 480p DVD and make it look like a 720p HD-DVD/bluray, it will make it look better. To most people, quite acceptable. Most HD-DVD/Bluray players feature built in upconversion. You can play 480p DVD's on them and they upconvert it to look good on high def panels. Some of them actually feature phenomenal scalers... The Toshiba XA2 features the Silicon Optix Reon chip, which is considered a top of the line scaler, it even meets or bests $2k dedicated external scalers.

04-02-2007, 01:43 PM	#9 (permalink)
Lyenae Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,912 -9 Internets	The people who'd benefit the most are those with older, budget 1080i LCD's. A lot of people come into the HD market via these types of TV's.

04-02-2007, 03:23 PM	#11 (permalink)
Lyenae Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,912 -9 Internets	Some people will pay for quality upconversion, it really depends on how many DVD's you watch, and how much value you place in visual quality. If you rent and occasional DVD, then it's not really that necessary. You can get by with a $30 Walmart player, just use component cables. But to someone who has been building a DVD library for 5 years and want to make sure they are getting the most out of that investment, they can and do buy good upconverting players. The high end Denon upconverting DVD player sells for $650. You can get as good if not better performance from a Toshiba XA2, AND be able to play an HD format in a war that might not end for 2 years, for under $600. Ultimately it depends on how much value you place in your entertainment.