Watchmen

[Kobalt]

No, what you are complaining about is the same in the comic. You just don't like the story but that doesn't make the movie bad.

[homsar]

yeah when the fuck did it matter if you had super powers or not. The coolest characters out there dont have powers, just look at batman, the question, Nick Fury ect...

[Korioni]

Originally Posted by Kobalt

No, what you are complaining about is the same in the comic. You just don't like the story but that doesn't make the movie bad.

Not necessarily true. In a 3~ hour movie, the story was incredibly convoluted because of all of these factors. Additionally, they barely touched the surface of any one character at all. This is why movies are categorized as either character or plot. You have to sacrifice one for the other. Watchmen tried to do both and ended up doing neither. While at the same time, they marketed it as a character piece.

Being part of a book(or even a graphic novel) allows for both factors to be done in detail. But movies don't work that way.

[Kobalt]

Problem is, night owl had no more backstory in the comic than he does in the movie(ok theres one panel that shows him and raw shark when they were a team but thats it). So again you have a problem with the comic. Not that that's a bad thing in itself btw.

[Fedor]

Originally Posted by Kobalt

Problem is, night owl had no more backstory in the comic than he does in the movie(ok theres one panel that shows him and raw shark when they were a team but thats it). So again you have a problem with the comic. Not that that's a bad thing in itself btw.

Well there was the essay he wrote for the ornithology journal at the end of chapter 7 which showed his fascination with birds from a young age. But that would be pretty difficult to adapt into the movie.

[Dunkelheit_vz]

Watchmen is a masterpiece. And masterpieces are not for all people, simple as that.

[Tramddark Luxdeorum]

Watchmen the Graphic Novel is definitely a masterpiece. The question is whether the movie captured enough of it to be considered an equal masterpiece of cinema.

To me, I liked the movie, but I didn't love it like I did the graphic novel.

I am not passing judgement though until I see the Tales of the Black Freighter/Under the Hood and the Watchmen Director's Cut. Given all that Zack Snyder had to take out from the original cut, I think that while its fair to judge his work by this theatrical release, its difficult to determine whether or not he captured the spirit of Watchmen until we see what he truly intended in that Director's Cut.

[Valishar]

I betcha Alan Moore doesn't like the film... he's picky. If you ever see his comic scripts as compared to even other well respected writers (like Grant Morrison), he writes way way more detail into his imagery than anybody else. As such he comes off a bit like a control freak. The opposite would be somebody like Stan Lee, who would say to the artist "Dr. Doom shrinks the Fantastic Four, and they get out by shrinking him, go draw that comic, I'll put the dialogue in when you're done."

For example a small portion of the script for the comic... http://home.insightbb.com/~fourcolor...hmenScript.pdf

For the lazy
actual first page:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

See that first panel in the top corner with the blood and smiley face? Well when they say a picture is worth a thousand words in Alan Moore's case it's actually true.
script:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

PAGE 1.
(PANEL) 1.

ALRIGHT. I'M PSYCHED UP, I'VE GOT BLOOD UP TO MY ELBOWS, VEINS IN MY TEETH AND MY HELMET AND KNEEPADS SECURELY FASTENED. LET'S GET OUT THERE AND MAKE TROUBLE THIS FIRST PAGE IS A SERIES OF VERTICAL JUMPS THAT TAKE US UP IN A STRAIGHT PROGRESSION FROM A MINUTE AND MICROSCOPIC DETAILED VIEW OF THE GUTTERS OF NEW YORK UP TO A PANORAMIC SHOT LOOKING DOWN UPON THE ROOFTOPS OF THIS FAMILIAR AND YET CURIOUSLY ALTERED CITYSCAPE IN THIS FIRST PANEL WE ARE LOOKING STRAIGHT DOWN AT A DRAIN OPENING IN A PERFECTLY ORDINARY GUTTER. TO THE RIGHT OF THE PICUTURE THE ACTUAL OUTER WALL OF THE CURB DROPS DOWN AWAY FROM US LIKE A MINIATURE CLIFF. OVER MORE TOWARDS THE LEFT, DOWN AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PICTURE, WE CAN SEE THE OLD AND WORN METAL OF THE DRAIN COVER WITH SOLID DARKNESS VISIBLE BETWEEN IT'S SLATS. UP AT THE TOP OF THE PICTURE WE CAN JUST SEE THE DIRTY CUTTER RUNNING DOWN TOWARDS THE MOUTH OF THE DRAIN AT THE BOTTOM. THERE ARE ONLY TWO ELEMENTS THAT SEPERATE THIS IMAGE FROM THE STANDARD EVERYDAY CLOSE UP OF A DRAIN, AND THE FIRST OF THESE IS THE UNUSUAL AMOUNT OF BLOOD WHICH IS GUSHING DOWN THE AFOREMENTIONED APERTURE IN THE FIRST PCITURE. LIQUID FINGERS OF BLOOD, THICK AND BRILLIANT SCARLET, DRIBBLE DOWN THE WALL OF THE CURB OVER TO THE RIGHT. GARISH STREAKS OF BRILLIANT RED AGAINST THE MUTED CONCRETE-GRAY OF THE STONE THAT THEY TRICKLE DOWN ACROSS. THE GUTTER IS SIMILARLY FULL OF BLOOD GURGLING HAPPILY TOWARDS THE DRAIN WHERE IT SPILLS OUT OVER THE METAL DRAIN COVERING AND DRIPS DOWN AS TINY GLINTING BEADS INTO THE DARKNESS BENEATH. THE SECOND ITEM OF REMARK IS A 1" DIAMETER SMILEY BADGE, COLOURED A VIVID SUNSHINE YELLOW AS IT LAYS THERE IN THE GUTTER SMILING UP AT US AGAINST A BACKGROUND OF LURID BLOOD RED. IT HAS SOMEHOW LODGED IN THE GUTTER SO THAT IT WON'T GO DOWN THE DRAIN AND SIMPLY REMAINS STUCK THERE, STARING UP AT US WITH ITS JARRINGLY INANE EXPRESSION. A SMALL SPLASH OF CRIMSON STAINS THE FRONT OF THE BADGE. A SINGLE TINY SPATTER ACROSS ONE BLACK CARTOON EYE OF THE FACE OF THE BADGE. THAT'S BASICALLY THE WHOLE OPENING IMAGE, UNLESS YOU WANT TO STICK A CANDY WRAPPER THAT'S ABOUT TO FLOAT DOWN THE DRAIN, IN WHICH CASE WE HAVE A PACKET OF MELTDOWNS, WHICH ARE LIKE TREETS (ENGLISH) OR M&M'S (AMERICAN) ONLY WITH LITTLE BRIGHTLY COLORED ATOMIC SYMBOLS ON THE WRAPPING. ONLY INCLUDE CANDY WRAPPING IF IT DOESN'T DETRACT FROM THE SIMPLICITY OF THE THE IMAGE WITH THE GUTTER, THE BLOOD AND THE BADGE, THOUGH, BECAUSE THIS IMAGE IS PRETTY IMPORTANT. IT GIVES US THE BLOOD SPATTERED SMILEY-BADGE, WHICH IS A PRETTY WORKABLE SYMBOL OF THE MYSTERY OF THE COMEDIAN'S MURDER WHICH RUNS THROUGH THE ENTIRE SERIES, AND IT ALSO GIVES US A FAINT SUBLIMINAL PREDICTION OF THE ENDING WITH IT'S IMAGE OF THE GUTTERS OF NEW YOUR AWASH WITH BLOOD. ANYWAY, SEE WHAT YOU THINK AND LEAVE OUT THINGS LIKE THE SWEET WRAPPER IF YOU THINK THEY'RE EVEN SLIGHTLY DISTRACTING. WE'LL HAVE PLENTY OF TIME TO GET ALL OUR CUTE BRAND NAMES IN LATER ON IN THE SERIES, THE ACTUAL TEXT UPON THIS FIRST PAGE IS ALL TAKEN FROM RORSCHACH JOURNAL, WHICH WILL BE A MORE-OR-LESS CONTINUING FEATURE OF THE NARRATIVE THROUGHOUT THE SERIES. I MENTION THIS IN CASE YOU THINK IT MIGHT BE NICE TO VISUALLY DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN RORSCHACH'S JOURNAL AND ANY OTHER CAPTION BOXES THAT MIGHT OCCUR BY GIVING IT A SPECIFIC COLOR A SPECIFIC SHAPE OR LETTERING STYLE OR SOMETHING. I SUPPOSE IT'D BE NICE IF WE COULD ACTUALLY GET OVER SOME OF THE CHARACTER OF RORSCHACH HIMSELF BY THE WAY HIS JOURNAL IS WRITTEN, ALTHOUGH I SUPPOSE A SUITABLY WARPED-LOOKING STYLE OF HAND WRITTING MIGHT BE OFF-PUTTINGLY DIFFICULT TO READ OR TIME CONSUMING AND DIFFICULT TO MAINTAIN. MAYBE YOU COULD SUGGEST A SORT OF SCRUFFINESS WITHOUT GETTING TOO ELABORATE, THOUGH. PERHAPS A MORE RAGGED EDGE OR A FAINT SPATTERING OF MESSY INK BLOTS IN THE BOXES HERE AND THERE AS IF THEY'D BEEN LETTERED BY A PEN WITH A SPLIT NIB OR SOMETHING. ANYWAY, THE OPTIONS ARE THERE, SO JUST DO WHAT YOU WANT. IN FACT, IF YOUR ANXIOUS TO SEE ANYTHING THAT EVEN SMACKS OF VISUAL FLUMMERY THEN PLEASE FEEL FREE TO MAKE RORSCHACH'S BOXES THE SAME AS EVERYONE ELSES AND RELY UPON THE TEXT IN THEM TO SET THEM APART FROM THE OTHER NARRATIVE WITHOUT IMPOSING ANY VISUAL GIMMICKS NEEDLESSLY. OKAY, THAT'S THE PREAMBLE OUT OF THE WAY. SO GIVE IT ALL YOU'VE GOT AND LETS SEE SOME GOOD DRAIN ART HERE.

CAP: RORSCHACH'S JOURNAL OCTOBER 12TH, 1965:
CAP: "dog carcass in alley this morning, tire tread on burst stomach. This city is afraid of me. I have seen its true face."

THE BLOOD AND THE BADGE, THOUGH, BECAUSE THIS IMAGE IS PRETTY IMPORTANT. IT GIVES US THE BLOOD SPATTERED SMILEY-BADGE, WHICH IS A PRETTY WORKABLE SYMBOL OF THE MYSTERY OF THE COMEDIAN'S MURDER WHICH RUNS THROUGH THE ENTIRE SERIES, AND IT ALSO GIVES US A FAINT SUBLIMINAL PREDICTION OF THE ENDING WITH IT'S IMAGE OF THE GUTTERS OF NEW YOUR AWASH WITH BLOOD.

So basically by changing the ending they ruin the symbolism which is established on panel 1, page 1. Ah well.

[mek]

I couldn't stand Night Owl or Silk Spectre II. Absolutely terrible acting and zero chemistry. Totally unwatchably bad. There were a lot of inappropriate laughs in the (full IMAX) theatre I was in, just due to cringeworthy delivery of dialogue. A lot of dialogue that works on a panel does not work in a live scene, and I think the movie in general (but especially these two) suffered due to the authenticity of the screenplay. Due to the absolute and total lack of chemistry, seeing them fuck TWICE (okay, one and a half times?) definitely seemed gratuitous. The new ending was weird in that it actually changed the meaning of the comic significantly, it ended up being sort of an endorsement of monotheism?? (As long as we all believe an invisible sky god is watching our every action, we will be just fine..)

Not quite sure how I felt about the heavy use of music. The opening credit sequence with the Dylan was awesome, but then it got a little out of hand. (This movie would totally make a good musical, though...) I want to see what Cohen has to say about that sex scene, heh.

Comedian was okay, I feel he came off as too goofy / absurd, but mostly he suffered due to proximity to Owl and Spectre.

Why was Nixon's nose getting larger and larger as the movie went on?

Dr Manhattan and Rorschach were absolutely perfect. I could watch about 10 more movies about Rorschach and only Rorschach.

Finally: did anyone else notice that Veidt had a folder labeled "BOYS" on his computer?

[Malkav]

Originally Posted by mek

Finally: did anyone else notice that Veidt had a folder labeled "BOYS" on his computer?

Oh god I noticed it while watching the movie but then totally forgot it.

I was like : "What? Ozzy the pedo?"

[mek]

I'm convinced Zac Snyder is a closet fag.

[Thorpe]

I finally got a chance to see it last night and I enjoyed it. My expectations weren't set to high because the novel is one of my favorite books of all time.

It's been a while since I've read it, but did the novel have The Comedian behind the JFK assassination? I'm too impatient to wait until I get home to check.

Overall I didn't think the music was too bad but Snyder definitely could have been more subtle. Though, I thought choosing Dylan during the opening credits was an awesome decision.

[OhSeven]

I think its funny the people complaining about the blue dong are acting like every time Dr. Manhattan was shown it was him running into a room doing the helicopter.

I'll have to sorta side with what people are saying about the movie ending. While I think the premise of the movie is much better than killer squid from the GN, the fact that it didn't show as much of the carnage was really an issue, especially since it hit more than a single city. Although, in my opinion, I don't think it killed the movie or made it a bad movie it did however, lessen the real impact the scene should of had on the audience.

[Heylel Teomim]

Saw it, liked it a lot. I've read the graphic novel before, and I still felt like the new ending is a bit neater than the original. Would have been nice to see more global chaos on those monitors of Veidt's, but hey, it's what we've got. The concept of the ending is certainly better, and in terms of what we see on screen less out of left field.

I'll definitely be seeing it again, but I can already tell the movie does suffer from pacing problems. Those complaints are legitimate. There are definitely points in the movie where it crawls, or its less interesting than it could be. Then, there are those moments of such perfection (Manhattan on Mars, his entire flashback) that time just stops and you're enthralled.

It's not a perfect movie, but some scenes do acheive perfection. Ultimately it will be remembered as the best possible attempt that anyone could reasonably make. As to whether it makes back its budget? I have no idea if it will continue to do well enough for that. It's a very complex movie, and a lot of audiences won't care for the story or really try to understand it. It'll sell like hotcakes on DVD though.

[Leviothan]

Yeah a lot of people in the audience didn't know it wasn't a super hero beat-em-up and more of a story about human nature and an alternate timeline of US history. When I was walking out of the theater all of the soul less people who don't read books or think beyond a movie aside from the explosions and casualities were saying "What the fuck was that shit about? What the fuck?!"