Mexico works to bar non-natives from jobs...

[TheGoat]

Getting sick and fucking tired of the two-faced bullshit from the Southern Invaders. They deport illegals the same day they are found and cry about the US deporting illegals at the same time. Now it comes out that some of the cushest jobs are reserved for their tribe?

MEXICO CITY - If Arnold Schwarzenegger had migrated to Mexico instead of the United States, he couldn't be a governor. If Argentina native Sergio Villanueva, firefighter hero of the Sept. 11 attacks, had moved to Tecate instead of New York, he wouldn't have been allowed on the force.

Even as Mexico presses the United States to grant unrestricted citizenship to millions of undocumented Mexican migrants, its officials at times calling U.S. policies "xenophobic," Mexico places daunting limitations on anyone born outside its territory.

In the United States, only two posts — the presidency and vice presidency — are reserved for the native born.

In Mexico, non-natives are banned from those and thousands of other jobs, even if they are legal, naturalized citizens.

Foreign-born Mexicans can't hold seats in either house of the congress. They're also banned from state legislatures, the Supreme Court and all governorships. Many states ban foreign-born Mexicans from spots on town councils. And Mexico's Constitution reserves almost all federal posts, and any position in the military and merchant marine, for "native-born Mexicans."

Recently the Mexican government has gone even further. Since at least 2003, it has encouraged cities to ban non-natives from such local jobs as firefighters, police and judges.

Mexico's Interior Department — which recommended the bans as part of "model" city statutes it distributed to local officials — could cite no basis for extending the bans to local posts.

After being contacted by The Associated Press about the issue, officials changed the wording in two statutes to delete the "native-born" requirements, although they said the modifications had nothing to do with AP's inquiries.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060521/...ing_immigrants

[Kallian]

There are jobs in Mexico?

[Cathan]

Maybe it's a good thing... If no one buy actual mexicans can get jobs in Mexico then maybe mexicans will have more work at home and not come to the U.S..... Doesn't make it right, but maybe it helps us out in a small way...

[TheGoat]

All of that is beside the point.

[Etadanik]

You don't seem to understand that the people migrating to the US aren't the same people who benefit from this decision, and that the people who do are not only two-faced hypocrites, but also directly responsible for millions of their own citizens emigrating from the country.

Start by considering how many people in the Mexican government actually look like the guys who make your burritos.

[Rad]

This does not change the fact you have a government which supports the illegal immagration of its people and in turn staunchly criticizes the US for its current political standing on the issue.

But on their side of the fence its completely cool to create a system which places extreme limitations on jobs as to perserve them for native mexicans...

You don't seem to understand that the people migrating to the US aren't the same people who benefit from this decision, and that the people who do are not only two-faced hypocrites, but also directly responsible for millions of their own citizens emigrating from the country.

Start by considering how many people in the Mexican government actually look like the guys who make your burritos.

How are they NOT effected by this? If they are not from Mexico where the hell are these people coming from? I mean really now.... are you fucking kidding me....

[Etadanik]

Of course they are affected, but the point you're missing is that it's not the "tribes" that determine Mexico's policy, as TheGoat seems to imply, but the predominantly Spaniard descendant elite that keeps both the local populace poor and yet places pressure on the US to accept them. It's the rich and the powerful that make the calls in Mexico's corrupt excuse of a democracy, and by directing your rage towards the immigrants, you're essentially falling right for their scapegoating tactic.

[TheGoat]

Originally Posted by Etadanik

Of course they are affected, but the point you're missing is that it's not the "tribes" that determine Mexico's policy, as TheGoat seems to imply, but the predominantly Spaniard descendant elite that keeps both the local populace poor and yet places pressure on the US to accept them. It's the rich and the powerful that make the calls in Mexico's corrupt excuse of a democracy, and by directing your rage towards the immigrants, you're essentially falling right for their scapegoating tactic.

All for one and one for all. It is the "tribe" that determines Mexican policy. Hence the exception for Vicente Fox to become president despite the fact that he is half-Spaniard. The Mexican government may be vile, but they do not commit acts that would grant these illegals amnesty here in the US.

Don't give me any bullshit about how these people are forced to migrate here illegally because life is so bad at home. We have a process for those who claim amnesty, and that process does not involve hopping a border at 3am in cloth booties designed to mask footprints or stuffing 91 people into a refrigerated box truck.

The Mexican government encourages its citizens to be leeches and criminals (despite their own harsh punishments for those who try to do the same in Mexico), and with all of the rhetoric coming from down south about how the US needs to open its arms to these criminals its entirely appropriate for attention to be directed at the lame excuse that is Mexican leadership.

Call it scapegoating if you want. But the illegals are still breaking the law, still leeching from our society, still not paying taxes, and are still making a mockery of our criminal justice system. Our society should have zero sympathy for a group of people that in turn have zero sympathy for the ills they have brought upon our society.

I don't see any of these Mexicans apologizing for the Mexican Mafia or MS13, ER rooms closing, welfare systems in crises, fraud and abuse of social programs, blatant disregard for the law, or any of that shit.

They refuse to accept responsibility for their actions.

Instead, they want amnesty. They want the US to legitimize their crimes.

What a fucking slap in the face.

[Lucane Darkseraphim]

Originally Posted by TheGoat

All for one and one for all. It is the "tribe" that determines Mexican policy. Hence the exception for Vicente Fox to become president despite the fact that he is half-Spaniard. The Mexican government may be vile, but they do not commit acts that would grant these illegals amnesty here in the US.

Don't give me any bullshit about how these people are forced to migrate here illegally because life is so bad at home. We have a process for those who claim amnesty, and that process does not involve hopping a border at 3am in cloth booties designed to mask footprints or stuffing 91 people into a refrigerated box truck.

The Mexican government encourages its citizens to be leeches and criminals (despite their own harsh punishments for those who try to do the same in Mexico), and with all of the rhetoric coming from down south about how the US needs to open its arms to these criminals its entirely appropriate for attention to be directed at the lame excuse that is Mexican leadership.

Call it scapegoating if you want. But the illegals are still breaking the law, still leeching from our society, still not paying taxes, and are still making a mockery of our criminal justice system. Our society should have zero sympathy for a group of people that in turn have zero sympathy for the ills they have brought upon our society.

I don't see any of these Mexicans apologizing for the Mexican Mafia or MS13, ER rooms closing, welfare systems in crises, fraud and abuse of social programs, blatant disregard for the law, or any of that shit.

They refuse to accept responsibility for their actions.

Instead, they want amnesty. They want the US to legitimize their crimes.

What a fucking slap in the face.

Wuwu that's some nicely ignorant racism right there. Yum yum, I can taste it. It is choking me.

You see where I live, which is 4 miles from the Mexican border, there are no Mexican gangs wandering the streets. In fact every Mexican I've met in this town is working. And believe me, being so close to the border means that most every clerk in every store is Mexican. If you hire a contractor to do a job you will find that 10 Mexicans show up and bang out the job in record time.

However if we are to go back and look at my old home in Florida you certainly can find your "bad" Mexicans. You know, the ones you described above and make it seem as if all Mexicans have those same horrible traits. But wait, Florida is a solid 1000 miles from the Mexican border... hmmm. Oh yes lets see, perhaps that means that those living in areas far away from the border have become adjusted to the American style and are simply living the American culture. Unfortunately that culture is probably American poverty, and with poverty easily can come all of those things you've listed above. So perhaps we should be blaming ourselves for being so reluctant to accept people who are willing to work hard, and thus forcing them into poverty.

[Ashes Emberblade]

Calm down there, hombre. The majority of illegal immigrants end up committing the crime of "hanging drywall" or "cutting chicken in a plant." They aren't criminals, except in the capacity of being here illegally. The problem is not with them, it's with a law designed to limit entrance to this country. Such a law is based half on racism, and half on the attempt to prop up shitty welfare programs.

Scrap the welfare and the racism, not the immigrants.

[TheGoat]

Originally Posted by Lucane Darkseraphim

Wuwu that's some nicely ignorant racism right there. Yum yum, I can taste it. It is choking me.

You see where I live, which is 4 miles from the Mexican border, there are no Mexican gangs wandering the streets. In fact every Mexican I've met in this town is working. And believe me, being so close to the border means that most every clerk in every store is Mexican. If you hire a contractor to do a job you will find that 10 Mexicans show up and bang out the job in record time.

That's nice (and irrelevant). Where I live, there are hispanic gangs that control the neighborhoods they populate. Orion St, Langdon St, Sureno Treces, the list goes on and on.

Now tell me. How many of those people that you've met are here legally? How many have used the local (taxpayer supported) hospital and were not covered by insurance? How many pay taxes? How many even speak English?

I don't care if they do good work. That has nothing to do with the fact that they have broken the law. Oh, and here in LA the Mexicans don't show up to jobsites for work. They hang out at Home Depot, Lowe's, and the paint stores.

However if we are to go back and look at my old home in Florida you certainly can find your "bad" Mexicans. You know, the ones you described above and make it seem as if all Mexicans have those same horrible traits. But wait, Florida is a solid 1000 miles from the Mexican border... hmmm. Oh yes lets see, perhaps that means that those living in areas far away from the border have become adjusted to the American style and are simply living the American culture. Unfortunately that culture is probably American poverty, and with poverty easily can come all of those things you've listed above. So perhaps we should be blaming ourselves for being so reluctant to accept people who are willing to work hard, and thus forcing them into poverty.

Take your sob story bullshit and shove it. Nobody is forcing these people into poverty. They choose to fly under the radar, because they don't want to pay taxes or risk facing the music for their crimes. They chose to break the law. Nobody held a gun to their head. It was a conscious decision to break the law. That's called premeditation. Also known as an aggravating circumstance in the legal world.

What's funny is that my maid is a legal immigrant from El Salvador. She was here 12 years with a Green Card before she was naturalized. Yes, she gets a 1099 from us at the end of the year. She has nothing good to say about illegals. In fact, many of the hispanics that I've spoken to , who came here legally and play by the rules, because they give people like her a bad name. She is the one you should feel sorry for. Not the criminals hopping the border to leech our way of life.

[TheGoat]

Originally Posted by Ashes Emberblade

Calm down there, hombre. The majority of illegal immigrants end up committing the crime of "hanging drywall" or "cutting chicken in a plant." They aren't criminals, except in the capacity of being here illegally. The problem is not with them, it's with a law designed to limit entrance to this country. Such a law is based half on racism, and half on the attempt to prop up shitty welfare programs.

And not paying taxes. And not paying for hospital bills. And repatriating money to Mexico. And not buying car insurance. And not getting driver's licenses. And contributing to a gang problem that makes the Bloods and Crips look like Barbie and Ken.

They are criminals, you need to accept that and move on. Your position is akin to letting armed robbers get off scot-free because they are flat broke and need money to pay for food. We are a law-abiding society. We do not change laws by breaking them. We change laws by legislating them.

Unless something changed in the last 225 years that I'm unaware of.

Scrap the welfare and the racism, not the immigrants.

Oh, so we punish those who are here legally to cater to criminals. Brilliant idea. What's next? Closing more ERs here in LA so the clinics on the border can provide more anchor baby births?

[Ashes Emberblade]

Or how about changing the law that states hospitals have to treat people regardless of their ability to pay / possession of insurance? That would be too simple.

Oh, and if they're working for a company, their income taxes are automatically withheld.

http://www.immigrationforum.org/docu...hsandFacts.pdf

That's a good link to read, amigo. You, like the majority of the country, are ignorant and misinformed. That, of course, makes it hard to legislate just laws, because you elect people equally ignorant and misinformed.

[Etadanik]

All for one and one for all. It is the "tribe" that determines Mexican policy. Hence the exception for Vicente Fox to become president despite the fact that he is half-Spaniard. The Mexican government may be vile, but they do not commit acts that would grant these illegals amnesty here in the US.

My interpretation of this paragraph is probably off, but isn't the point of this thread your bashing of Mexico calling amnesty for its illegals?

And wtf is the "tribe" that you love to generalize across? I first interpreted it to mean the aboriginal population that are the direct descendant of tribal groups, but now it seems you're arguing that it's all of Mexico. So which is it?

Don't give me any bullshit about how these people are forced to migrate here illegally because life is so bad at home. We have a process for those who claim amnesty, and that process does not involve hopping a border at 3am in cloth booties designed to mask footprints or stuffing 91 people into a refrigerated box truck.

You don't seem to understand. They *are* forced to migrate here, and they're willing to break the laws because frankly, they'd rather take the risk of getting shot on the way here or drowning in some sink hole near the border than endure the destitution of their local neighborhoods. That doesn't make what they do right, but it does explain what the source of the problem is, and it ain't that they're just looking to leech off of US welfare. Like other people in this thread have already pointed out - they're willing to work hard. It's just that the way US immigration policies are set up, the quota for the kind of work they can do (and, given the state of the education system in Mexico, ever will be able to do) is simply incapable of supporting their vast numbers. The US has good reasons for having such quotas, but it doesn't make void the fact that they're effectively economic refugees whose chances for advancement beyond "dirt poor" in their native country is just about zero.

I don't see any of these Mexicans apologizing for the Mexican Mafia or MS13, ER rooms closing, welfare systems in crises, fraud and abuse of social programs, blatant disregard for the law, or any of that shit.

Maybe because there's a huge distinction between violating the border crossing law and gang violence? Why would people who cross the border illegally to find work apologize for the actions of second or third generation Latino gangsters who could care less about work?

A little less generalization would help your case tremendously, as I'm sure you're noticing based on the amount of flak you're getting for your across-the-board arguments. Pretending to be the internet tough guy will only get you so far, and it's not enough to convince the rest of us that you're right.

[Lucane Darkseraphim]

Originally Posted by TheGoat

That's nice (and irrelevant). Where I live, there are hispanic gangs that control the neighborhoods they populate. Orion St, Langdon St, Sureno Treces, the list goes on and on.

It is only irrelevant to someone unable to understand the context and holistic idea of what I wrote.

Take your sob story bullshit and shove it. Nobody is forcing these people into poverty. They choose to fly under the radar, because they don't want to pay taxes or risk facing the music for their crimes. They chose to break the law. Nobody held a gun to their head. It was a conscious decision to break the law. That's called premeditation. Also known as an aggravating circumstance in the legal world.

Wow, so people have free will? That is breaking news to me. Get channel 9 out here.

I wouldn't expect an internet toughguy like you to ever show compassion, but in this case it doesn't even take compassion but rather basic understanding of human nature. The illegals are forced to play it under the radar for fear of being thrown out of the country. This means that they need to take less scrupulous jobs and be more evasive in regards to the federal government. This innately puts them in more volatile dispositions and over time things can snowball. With how lucrative drugs are it is only a matter of time before poor people begin to traffic them to simply stay afloat.

If you think people are crossing the border to kill and maim then you are hopelessly idiotic. They could kill each other just as well down in Mexico. They come up here for jobs to support their families. Unfortunately the awful way that the American public treats them puts the illegals in positions that will naturally escalate into violence.

Of course you will "refute" my entire argument by stating: "It doesn't matter because they broke the law by entering the country in the first place."

This country still feels the knack for masking symptoms rather than correcting the root of the problem. If you honestly feel that all Mexicans are evil and thus are the root of the problem - then by all means lets build a 500 foot wall and kick every last one out. But if you have any sense at all you will understand that the root of the problem is two fold... 1) Mexico is still deeply impoverished 2) Our system does not readily assimilate willing workers into our society due to racism and xenophobia. Unfortunately for us we can only fix one of those two, and guess which one that is.