Robert Jordan diagnosed with blood disease

[Tabris]

For me the most sore point was how every woman changed from being "strong" and "interesting" into being horrible, harridan-like bitches who needed to be put in their place.

Seriously, RJ must be into BDSM shit, because the women in his books are fucking insanely domineering, matriarchy or not. The men in his books need to grow some fucking balls and tell off the braid pulling bitches.

[Kuro]

Originally Posted by Tabris

For me the most sore point was how every woman changed from being "strong" and "interesting" into being horrible, harridan-like bitches who needed to be put in their place.

Seriously, RJ must be into BDSM shit, because the women in his books are fucking insanely domineering, matriarchy or not. The men in his books need to grow some fucking balls and tell off the braid pulling bitches.

Rand gets put in the gimp box...

[Runnen]

Originally Posted by Korbal

A lot of the less talented (but somehow more popular) hacks like Robert Jordan and Terry Goodkind are pretty much taking LotR and retelling it their own way. That doesn't stop me from enjoying the series, but when they stop telling their story to drag it out another three books (or in RJ's case, nine), it really gets irritating.

You could pick apart the "Dark Tower" series of Stephen King and you'd see that it's really the Lord of the Rings rewritten in a different setting with different characters. King himself says how much he loved hobbits when he was young.


*Spoilers if you haven't read / finished the Dark Tower*




It's all there really, the whole Lord of the Rings..

Roland on his quest to reach the dark goal that may cost him his life.. Roland and Jake going under the dark tunnel (Moria), Roland dropping Jake to continue his quest (Gandalf's fall).. Roland finding new people to help him (the Fellowship).. Mordred stalking Roland (Golumn).. the Wolves of the Calla attacking the poor farmer folks and Roland and his gang stopping by to help them (Uruks attacking Rohan and the Fellowship helping them at Helm's Deep)..

[Korbal]

Originally Posted by Runnen

You could pick apart the "Dark Tower" series of Stephen King and you'd see that it's really the Lord of the Rings rewritten in a different setting with different characters. King himself says how much he loved hobbits when he was young.

You're stretching there.

[Runnen]

Originally Posted by Korbal

You're stretching there.

Heh no I'm not. In the recent editions of the books, he says himself that his story should be seen as another version of the Lord of the Rings, with King sauce poured over it. It's all in there, those listed above were just small examples.

[frott]

And lord of the rings is a biblical rewrite regarding the corruption of power and technology.

There are only 7 plots, one for each of the 7 sins / anti-sins and the driving forces behind them.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Originally Posted by Korbal

Wrong. Pick up 'A Song of Ice and Fire' by George R R Martin. Try 'The Malazan Book of the Fallen' by Steven Erikson. You will be amazed.

A lot of the less talented (but somehow more popular) hacks like Robert Jordan and Terry Goodkind are pretty much taking LotR and retelling it their own way. That doesn't stop me from enjoying the series, but when they stop telling their story to drag it out another three books (or in RJ's case, nine), it really gets irritating.

'A Song of Ice and Fire' is largely about a bastard, taken in my parents not his own, who just happens to be the king's son but has no clue about it. Then, he goes and joins a brotherhood of misfits, wins himself command of those misfits, obtains a magical sword, and leads the fight protecting the kingdom against evil wraiths. The other half is about a Queen who is forced to leave her kingdom and travel in the wilderness, where she finds powerful dragons able to save said kingdom.

The above is the twin aspects of the Monomyth, shaman and warrior, knowledge and arms. Its the same thing Tolkien did, its the same thing Beowolf did and King Auther and Homer, and back and back and back. Get off the "Tolkien coppying" thing already. All authors compound on top of each other, this does not make them any less of an author. Jordan's fault isn't that he used a base, its that he let his world get the better part of him over his characters. Goodkind's fault isn't his base, its that 9/11 made him go batshit crazy.

Martin also used that same base, the Monomyth and medievil europe, but were he succeeds is in characterization and theme.

[Arbitrary]

The Dark Tower series became such a huge fucking disappointment.

And a retelling of the elements of the LotR isn't what I personally ment when I said corpse humping. I mean a generic fantasy world with basically renamed characters.

Some story elements are just ubiquitous. Similar core elements between stories doesn't offend me at all. I mean, how would you really do something totally differant and new? Our band of adventurers will head out to confront an ancient evil that threatens the world, meeting friends and foes and forced to make sacrifices for the greater good.

That is so fucking broad it just doesn't even mean anything.

[Hateyou]

Originally Posted by Cuppycake

I should stop in and visit him =)

I'm sure he'd LOVE to have a bunch of drooling fans coming in to see him during a procedure that could kill him. I say do it.

[Tabris]

Spoilers for the Dark Tower here:

My only problem with the Dark Tower series was in what a stupid way the Crimson King was punked out at the end. EEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Otherwise I thought the series was great, and the ending was amazing, really that was the only way the series could have ended on the "right" (i.e. tragic) note.

[Arbitrary]

DT Spoilers. Go away.



















I'm glad someone liked it because I sure didn't. I didn't even think of it as being tragic. Ok, this time through the loop he proved he was worthy of redemption and was given the Horn of Eld which, according to the poem, he had to have. He goes through again, blows the horn, curse broken, happy ending.

The Crimson King was wasted, Randall Flag also had a very anticlimatic death. and Mordred really didn't do anything either.

I wish I had stopped reading when King said to stop.

[Runnen]

Dark Tower spoilers, don't read this if you haven't finished the series..



I liked the series a lot, and the ending was at the same time tragic and hopeful, since this time with the Horn of Eld he might actually be able to break the loop and save Gilead and return to his old life. My only problem with the series (and with most King books) is when King decides to go prophet on us and just suddenly says something like "Eddie wanted to ask a question to Roland, but didn't. He'd never get another chance to ask.". I mean Whiskey Tango Foxtrot. I DO NOT WANT TO KNOW THAT EDDIE IS GOING TO DIE, MOTHERFUCKER! This line (or something similar) was written somewhere in Book FIVE, and I read through this book, and Book Six with a knot in my stomach wondering whether Eddie was going to get killed stupidly on the next page. When his death did come in Book Seven, I was crushed but relieved at the same time because it was the end of a long wait I knew would finish in his death. But fuck King for spoiling it 2 books before it happened! Fuck him in the ear with the car that ran him over!

*pant pant* Okay I feel better now.

[Schatze]

Big difference between having some elements of a story archetype (hmm, I wonder why it's called a fucking archetype), and basically cutting and pasting characters, themes, plot elements, etc.

I hope he doesn't die before finishing this. I gave in and bought the last novel because it was supposedly, guaranteed, the second last. Stuff happened! It'd be a fairly ironic kick to the nuts if he ended up dropping dead.

[Runnen]

Originally Posted by Arbitrary

The Crimson King was wasted, Randall Flag also had a very anticlimatic death. and Mordred really didn't do anything either.

I wish I had stopped reading when King said to stop.

I do see what you mean about the Crimson King. You get the feeling that he is a nearly almighty being from what you hear all along Roland's journey, but when he does get there it turns out the Crimson King is not much more than some maniac using archaic weapons (Harry Potter Sneetches) and that his power really mostly comes from misinformation (since most everyone seems to think he is all powerful) and from having powerful minions (Vampires, Wolves, and the others..).

Randall Flagg had a lot of mystery around him in the first few books but it was clear all along that he was a mindless minion of the Crimson King and was almost as clueless about the true nature of the King or the Tower itself as Roland was before his journey ended. Flagg got too cocky, too greedy and he made the mistake of making fun of Mordred.

Mordred himself, I believe he was wasted on purpose. Mordred is supposed to be the nemesis of Roland, a sort of Antechrist that will spell certain doom for all that lives in the shadow of the Dark Tower. Yet Mordred makes the dumbest mistakes such as rushing ahead, being impatient... and eventually he pays the price of that too when he follows them so impatiently that he drinks poisoned water, gets sick and so weak that he dies very easily.


Personnally I thought one of the best moments of the last book was when Roland and Susannah enter the house of the old man near the Dark Tower (Dandelo I believe? The one Eddie warned them about.). First he makes them laugh a lot, and without the stupid incident involving Susannah's boil, they'd both have been killed when Dandelo transforms into this insect-thing to devour Roland. I thought this scene was particularly creepy because it made me realize that Pennywise from "IT" is probably the same species as Dandelo... bugs that feed on human emotions (Pennywise feeds on fear, Dandelo feeds on laughter) and then turn into insects to eat you. Brrr.

[Hateyou]

Bets on him dying on April Fools day?!